The Case Against Art by John Zerzan

[tinkerjack]

They are linked some how, just a casual link, seems like one writer could not talk about Husserl with out talking about Bergson. I think Bergson was a little before, I think it was he who influenced Husserl. But my mind is a joke tonight. I have almost had too much fun tonight. But it is an interesting idea for a little research. Get back to you when I sober up

[tinkerjack]

gosh they were born the same year I think, 1959, so I am drunk and confused here. Maybe I was thinking of another B as his teacher, Brentano? No idea if I spelled that right

Shure nuff, I am not that smart when I am sober, I should avoid this board, hic.

A charismatic teacher, Brentano exerted a strong influence on the work of Edmund Husserl, Alexius Meinong, Christian von Ehrenfels, Kasimir Twardowski, Anton Marty, and others and played, thus, a central role in the philosophical development in Middle-Europe in the early twentieth century.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/brentano/


anyhow this is a great string doreen.

[Marksman45]

This is really not much related to the thread, so forgive me for this digression;

I say that art has nothing to do with emotion, or anything else human, animal, vegetable, mineral, because humans (and everything connected to them, such as emotion), animals, vegetables, minerals, and all other entities are, on a cosmic scale, insignificant. Value = zero.
Only <i>action</i> is significant.
Art is an action. Or, rather, <i>the</i> action.

[tinkerjack]

as long as we are digressing
the value of Art in dollars
I know it has nothing to with the string but I been wondering about political art lately. And how you quoted Tolkien about art makes real, a picture of a farm worker in black light shows the poisons on his face in glowing color. You can buy a copy for 1500 dollars. I don't know. But I would hope that some of that Art money go to get the guy some medical care? How stupid am I? I mean does art have to have some altruistic value, does it have to heal, relieve suffering, inspire us to do something to celebrate life?

Art is the action,

that relates more than mine,but I can never resist hijacking doreen's posts.

[e_dog]

the payment of the farmworkerglowingpoison is the raising of awareness, i guess. a consciousness raising effort.

the value of the hunman being is not equal to zero. the human is the origin of all value, or at least sentient animals, without which the universe, vegetable or mineral, material and void, would be utterly meaningless. emptiness. but art creates value as can action, but action has meanng because it relates to and is always affecting, persons.

[tinkerjack]

the payment of the farmworkerglowingpoison is the raising of awareness, i guess. a consciousness raising effort.

I think that is a good answer

Art is action? do I beg the question

I would have to agree the human is the origin of all value, but it sounds so rational that I am suspicious. Arogant? Like the preacher telling me that his bible is infallable (spelling) I don't know Plato at all, Polemics sounds like something I would get from eating spoiled knockwurst. I read a lot of classics but the histories and plays and stuff like that. So these rhetorical random questions of mine probably been answered thousands of years ago. But but
I would like to think that there is value in nature and I may not be the best judge of what has value, given that a man is just a man.

[Marksman45]

If you ask me, the universe <i>is</i> meaningless.
Value doesn't exist.

That might sound nihilistic, but, in a non-rational paradoxical way that I can't really explain, it isn't.



As for money, money is just another in a countless set of energy systems. Multi-dimensional constructs of push-and-pull.

[tinkerjack]

If you ask me, the universe is meaningless.
Value doesn't exist.

I can't explain it either, but I got this monkey brain that loves to connect dots. To bring a little honey home to the hive.

"Man would rather have the void for a purpose then be void of purpose."

Intelligent Design, sounds so good, seems to make sense, sounds so rational it makes me suspicious too.

[e_dog]

universe has meaning if we give it meaning. or rather selected bits of the universe can be meaningful even though the whole adds up to an incoherent unexplainable mess.

like life?

Intel. Design is just a religious reappropriation of the hegemony of engineering in civilized society and consciousness.

god the great scientist, inventor, or aesthetic designer. this is the modern equivalent of God the supreme judge and legislator, the punisher of a more patriarchal authoritarian world.

a nice myth, but not one to propagate in the classroom. though certainly, perhaps, less dangerous than other myths that form the standard school curriculum like the quaint idea that America is the most free, most democratic country, and so forth

and so on.

[tinkerjack]

quaint idea that America is the most free, most democratic country, and so forth

Sometimes I think about when I first started listening to the drug humor of the seventies. Firesign theatre

from memory

Oh Zion Oh mighty Zion
We are marching on to shibolleth Accross the Gulf of Exxon

Watched a travellogue of Europe the other night, I felt homesick. But is there born a man with soul so dead that he has not said this is my own, my native land.
Raised on John Wayne war movies and Walt Disney cartoons that made the Japanese look like insects. Doreen was talking about acculturation. Funkadelic sang

"I knew I had to rise above it or drown in my own sh*t.

I would still say we are in pretty good shape for free speach, I heard someone use the R word the other day. Recession. I am voting republican next time because they make the trains run on time. and I got a full lunch pail, and a job
life is beautiful, it still is for me, selfish bastard that I am.

Marksman45 you can't keep batting a thousand
it ain't human. you got to strike out sometime
meanwhile I keep an eye on creative to catch your next at bat.


pop quiz or random rhetorical questions

So the guy said Art came first and right on its heels came myth.
What the heck does that mean? You are dissmissive of myth sometimes e-dog. Myth is powerful still. Are you a materialist or do you believe that symbols can be corrupted. Can a work of art what ever it is become corrupted. I still think the egg came first.
Just jiving cause I don't know what art is. I don't even know what music is.

Professor

I agree completely.

My sentiments also,

I have no idea what art is
something like electricity I suppose
I turn a switch the light comes on
Like I really know what an electron is.
Going to bow out cause I got nothing to say
just more dumb questions already been answered.
Nothing to tell anybody about art
that they don't all ready know.

But it interests me that I had a Navajo bowl as my avatar and e-dog took offense at it. Water under the bridge but still curious. I probably am not knowlegable enough about philosophy to understand his reasons. I thought it was odd that a symbol could be corruped. I suppose one of these days I will have to read Plato.

e-dog I mock you not. I love science, I love physics, and after physics comes metaphysics. And after this comes the metafiscal homelessness blues if I don get down to work. I have read much about the Greeks and by the Greeks but I never had patience for Plato
Enjoyed this a lot. thanks again doreen.

[Marksman45]

What is meaning?
Meaning only applies to Thought.
Thought is over-rated if you ask me. It is but one facet of an infinite no-face diamond.


"People often behave as though it's a big deal that I'm a wizard. But is it? Ordinary men play about in a sandbox of metaphors, blissfully (sometimes) or agonizingly (usually) unaware of the fact that they are merely metaphors. Wizards, on the other hand, are well aware of the metaphors and their metaphorical nature, but play about with them anyway. Granted, we throw out a lot of the old sand, but on the whole we actually <i>expand</i> the sandbox. Now, who's really being silly here?"
-- Robin Weston Cavendish etc.

[e_dog]

Marks:

What is meaning?
Meaning only applies to Thought.

That's what i thought, until i thought about it some more. then i thought, what if Thought was merely the name given to events of meaning without an object/subject to which we can point?

i mean, really, think about it.

(homage to doreen's word-play style.)