hezbollah just found out. . .

[stilltrucking]

It is good for jimboloco, but it is bad for me. Oh well, one man's meat is...

As far as the Hezbollah missiles into Israel, they are futile gestures yes and should also be stopped. I

Oh no jimbo, Israel got her tit in a ringer now, even more so. What I have read in the NYT and Washington Post is that Israel was caught off guard by the strength and sophistication of those attacks. They have the ability to inflict real hurt on Isreal now.

As far as Hexobowlashit they got a history that goes back to 1982 and the slaughter of hundreds of unarmed civilians at Shatila and Shabra that was engineered by Sharon.

The Massacre of Palestinians
Then tragedy struck, radically altering both the U.S. role and the future of Hezbollah. On the evening of September 16, 1982, Christian Phalangists swept into the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps outside Beirut and slaughtered hundreds of Palestinian civilians. Eyewitness reports and subsequent Israeli inquiries established that Israeli commanders permitted the Christian militia to enter the camps. Sharon himself later testified that he had approved of the men going into the camps in order to detain PLO guerrillas. But he also insisted that he had no advance knowledge that a massacre of civilians would take place. Regardless of intent, the massacre caused a significant shift in the balance of power in Lebanon, one with important implications for the emergence of Hezbollah.

http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stori ... /tl02.html

That is the problem of the bloody so called holy land, it is a somebody done somebody wrong song, you could trace it back to the Prophet himself. Fourteen hundred years of an eye for an eye.

Yes I can hardly make it through a day without a judih poem. But I don her no good by getting sentimental about the holy land. Part of the disagreement wiht j and wd was about the Isreali spin. The government of Israel is just a government. It is not "special" because it a Zionist or Jewish government. If my words cause her pain, I am sorry.

[judih]

jim, hizbolluh attacked us in the north. They shot katyusha rockets into Israel.

They have weapons that are being hurled (70 katyushas this past hour alone) into Israel.

I hear your anger and disgust.
But no i would not advocate war into Gaza. Me? You talkin to me? i'm not advocating any war. I have no military mind, nor am i in any position to advocate tactics to protect the citizens here.

If it were up to me, there'd be no Army, no soldiers and no need to even think of having such an organization.

But i'm not in charge here.

This i say in response to what you said: Would you also advocate a massive air war into Gaza?
On what pretext should this have to happen?

"Yes I looked up your kibbutz once, to the east of Gaza. And the place is fairly peaceful." To this i say, yes, fairly peaceful, but for the past 5 years we've had qassams being thrown on our fields. This is the fact. This is the 'fairly peaceful' thing. But no, i'm not advocating massive attack. Are you nuts? Who wants to escalate war?

To this: "And the Gazananians, the Gazaneze, should just stop voting for Hamas, and the lebanese should just stop Hezbollah."

Well yeah! But that's not up to us, is it?

This part: "You yourself said that Lebanon is intruded upon by Hezbolah, altho they were the effective governing body in south Lebanon. the assassinations of anti-Syrian Lebanese is noted, I was already aware about this. So how is Lebanon supposed to clean up its act and get rid of hezbollah? Ah, maybe a massive air war onto All of LebAnon will do the trickzz/"

If no one else is going to prevent Hezbolluh from attacking Israel, yes, we'll do it.

The question is: why isn't anyone else doing anything at all to stop Hezbolluh from attacking?

[jimboloco]

Israel has the right to defend itself.
That is one thing we all agree on.
anothher thhing we all agree on, ibleive,
is that the AirWar into all over and throughtout Lebanon is "disproportionate" to the Hezbollah bullshit of taking Israeli soldiers, certainly worth a response.
and the missiles coming down into Israel while futile, is also deadly and so the hezbollahs are wanting to say that yes,
payback's a dirty dawg
and more people suffer. I call on Hezbollah to stop the missiles right now.
I call the Israelise to stop stop stop the air war.
Counting breaths, to get to that space on non-discursive mind.
may cooler heads prevail.

[judih]

Still, no one is asking you to wax sentimental over Israel.
If you spent some time here, real time, you might see something worth your while.

And what i mean cannot be understood unless you live here.
As for what went on between wd and myself, it has nothing to do with what you believe. The situation there started long before it began again here.

It was a personal issue, and it surprised me, for i thought it had been resolved amicably a long time before now. What you saw was not the whole picture, so leave it alone, please.

Just as you are not the U.S., i am not Israel. We are each individuals trying to make sense of chaos and trying to stay as objective as possible, to avoid the brainwash of our cultures, and to stay connected to our human compassion and respect for one another as survivors of a strange age in a very strange place.

[jimboloco]

Judih over there you have said it so well.
Take care as well as you can.
I know you are where you are supposed to be.
ST and I are where we are supposed to be as well.
I am getting over a bad cold, went to a Zen retreat last week,
am renewing my energy to return to my cancer ward tomorrow, all with smiles,
yet
the incidence of violence ails me as much as ever
and so it is
back to my breathing.

[judih]

dare i suggest?

group hug.

now more than ever we need to offer strength to one another. Someone's gotta change things for the next generation.

[jimboloco]

singlemAlt, yoou cannot get away from Judih's reach

[stilltrucking]

Brain wash of our cultures. I think it is pretty late for that. Isreal and our Christian Zionists have done their job. I am speaking of the posts about the Death of The Dead sea;. I think WD was calling you out on that. And I think it has everything to do with the spin your government has put on that. NO thanks I got no desire to visit Israel. I am sure it is very special just like every bit of this earth.

Israel had made clear that it does not want Ms. Rice to begin a peacemaking effort yet, and the Bush administration has, for the time being, gone along with an Israeli request for more latitude. President Bush and American officials have resisted joining other world leaders in calling for an immediate cease-fire, reflecting the Israeli view that reaching a truce before destroying a significant number of Hezbollah’s missiles would open Israel up to the possibility of more attacks.
President Bush, as he has repeatedly, said Tuesday that Israel must be allowed to defend itself. “Everybody abhors the loss of innocent life,” he said, speaking at the White House before a meeting with Congressional members. “On the other hand, what we recognize is that the root cause of the problem is Hezbollah.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/19/world ... r=homepage

See that singlemalt. You are right it is all their fault. Poor little Isreal.

Take care judih.

[e_dog]

Jimboloco is right to highlight the question of "disproportionality." Israel's military's hysterical / opportunistic overreaction to the capture of its soldiers in both te regions of Gaza (which side of the crisis has been obscured in recent days in US media coverage) and Lebanon is totally disproportionate to the situation. and, of course, the number of civilians that have been killed by the Israeli military in Lebanon is outrageous, it is something like 20 to 1 (civilians to combatants) if some recent of the counts are correct. That is terrorism if anything is.

There is no difference between terrorism and "collateral damage." No doubt, Hezbollah, and Hamas, is a terrorist organization that carries out dispicable acts of violence; in this respect it is just like the U.S. and Israeli Air Forces, but with less firepower.

[jimboloco]

well actually trying o destroy hezbollah's missiles is not the whole picture, becauuse the bombing into Lebanon far exceeds the area of said missiles.

and edawg has put in into a haiku almost.

up before dawn
casting thy net
what is the truth of the matter
how much rain does the great ocean take
before it is full?
ordinary mind is the way
the way is vast and boundless
thru knowing and not

i will make this day a pilgrimage
going nowhere
everywhere already

[stilltrucking]

"disproportionality." Israel's military's hysterical / opportunistic overreaction

No jimboloco, nothing hysterical about it. It was calculated in cold blood.

[singlemalt]

trucking said:

What was your name on litkicks, tete offensive/jim vinny? Go ahead pull my daisy. I really don't care. No hard feelings, I am a big toby keith fan myself.

good luck with what ever it is you are doing here.

no, i'm not tete offensive/jim vinny. never have been.

i suppose the toby keith reference is meant as an insult as you seem to equate republicans to country music fans. well, i'm neither a republican nor a country music fan. i've never listened to toby keith. i don't care for country music but i don't think that someone who listens to it is necessarily a right-wing psycho. but guess what, not all right-wing positions are wrong. and not all liberal positions are right.

and the "good luck with whatever it is you are doing here" thing. . . do only conspiracy theorists have the right to be here? hey man, it's good to broaden one's horizons with a healthy debate. maybe you'll learn something. i did by researching the liberty bombing incident.

[firsty]

singlemalt is hereby vouched for by me, firsty. he was on litkicks just like the rest of us douchebags under the same user name.

jimvinny is not singlemalt, but he is alive and well, or so i've heard.

anyway, lissen, nobody wants anybody to die. my beef with israel is that, just as many countries can point to the US and claim that the US has imperialistic tendencies, which i think is a valid point, i think many countries could point to israel and claim that they have racist or ethnocentric tendencies, and that they behave far too independently of the world's politics than they have justification for, and those would be valid points.

they are points that can be debated, but they are still valid points, and making them does not make someone an asshole, an anti-Semite, or pro-terrorism, and it does not mean that that person thinks that israel or the US is the root of all evil.

having children sign bombs is something i posted because, for one thing, it had JUST been posted on boingboing, and because i think it demonstrates that culture of hatred that israel is breeding.

during a war, children should be in shelters, not writing their names on artillary shells with sarcastic warm wishes for the children that those shells will kill.

singlemalt, my only beef with you on this thread is that hezbollah or whatever is getting what is coming to them, in the form of the bitch of payback. yes, hezbollah has stepped up its shit, and, yes, of course (as i said in my first response, or one of my first responses), iran is involved, and syria, and this thing runs deep and israel is facing a major threat.

but with all the well-deserved criticism that the neo-cons in the bush administration received for its attacks on iraq, what israel has done to lebanon is, by comparison, much more dramatic and also much less criticized.

it's perfectly accurate, what stilltrucking (i think) said, that israel is a NATION, and it can make mistakes like all nations do, and i think that israel gets too many free passes under the guise of defending itself.

i dont really think we should bomb israel for not giving us warning. but i do believe that the UN needs to slap the israeli administration and military for pulling this shit. established nations are supposed to be better than terrorists. israel is killing way too many civilians, and it's doing so without even pretending to give a shit about the diplomacy from other nations, not meaning that they should sit at a table with hezbollah, but they should be counseling other western nations about this before bombing the fucking shit out of a resort town with thousands of foreign nationals in the area.

[Arcadia]

http://www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/elpai ... 07-19.html

[stilltrucking]

Thanks arcadia, I sure wish I could read spanish. I am not much of a debater either. I don't know what knip is doeing here with his devils advocate I am always trying to see both sides of the story too.

Firsty I don't give a shit, THey attacked that ship over and over the first thing they went for was the american flag. As soon as their fighter jets shot one off the crew would raise another. Knip starts that shit about LBJ said it was a tragic accident. I know he is blowing smoke. I think about an american sea man with his guts hanging watching those jets attack again and again. Then they torpedoed the ship. agian and again. It was a renlentless it was clear they were out to destory the ship and kill everyone on it. The sad thing is that when I was googling all the 911 conspiracy sites a suprising number of them were neo-nazi believe or not. And they all seemed to have link to the story of the USS Liberty.
Knip talking about shit bag arab terrorists, Israel has a fine history of terrorism against the British before 1948.
jimboloco I think Platoon sucked, compared to Shortimers/Full Metal Jacket. Maybe it is the difference between the Army and the Marines. Gustaf Hasford rest in peace.

"The truth lies some where in between" Blues For Allah.
No thinks on the debate knip. Have fun