sign on the dotted line and we'll give you answers.
give up insecurity, uncertainty and the bother of having to think
just sign
and all that's behind you
that door goes to the mother earth cave
that one goes up to the next plane
that one goes down to burnfire and foul (mmmm!)
here for women
there for men
kids go where they're told (or else)
drip water on em, slice off their foreskins, tell em to memorize this, say that....(or else)
religion is a one way ticket to Belonging!
ah.........................................men
Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Wiccan: None of the Above
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Doreen Peri
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Dave The Dov
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Last edited by Dave The Dov on March 3rd, 2009, 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
No man, your point is that anybody who professes to be a believer in some faith are incompetent boobs.perezoso wrote: why not use yr brain instead of trying to be the net nanny
I referred to the quote which is great, by the way, "Oh yes the weight of tradition. Maybe that is what some folk take as “faith” eh?" How I entertpreted what you wrote.. .
but you don't seem to be an easy read, Lazy and hazy.
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stilltrucking
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Dave The Dov
- Posts: 2257
- Joined: September 3rd, 2004, 7:22 pm
- Location: Madison Wisconsin which is right here
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Far as I'm concerned I like when the women put us men in our place. It brings us back to reality.
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Last edited by Dave The Dov on March 4th, 2009, 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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perezoso
This is not a "gender" issue, and to suggest it is really to miss the point of this thread, which is that there is no rational justification for religious or theological points of view. You may find that bothersome or not very hip or fun, and disagree if you will, but I have yet to hear a reasoned defense of any mystical or religious perspective. X-tianity, Judaism, Islam and Hinduism have been used to control and oppress women (and men) for centuries, and though it may be fun to chat about it really is tragic when priests or preachers defend militarism or excuse the "faithful" of their ethical failings. I think Neruda's quote shows the issue pretty clearly and succinctly.
LAS AGONÍAS
En Cajamarca empezó la agonía.
El joven Atahualpa, estambre azul,
árbol insigne, escuchó al viento
traer rumor de acero.
Era un confuso
brillo y temblor desde la costa,
un galope increíble
-piafar y poderío-
de hierro y hierro entre la hierba.
Llegaron los adelantados.
El Inca salió de la música
rodeado por los señores.
Las visitas
de otro planeta, sudadas y barbudas,
iban a hacer la reverencia.
El capellán
Valverde, corazón traidor, chacal podrido,
adelanta un extraño objeto, un trozo
de cesto, un fruto
tal vez de aquel planeta
de donde vienen los caballos.
Atahualpa lo toma. No conoce
de qué se trata: no brilla, no suena,
y lo deja caer sonriendo.
"Muerte,
venganza, matad, que os absuelvo",
grita el chacal de la cruz asesina.
El trueno acude hacia los bandoleros.
Nuestra sangre en su cuna es derramada.
Los príncipes rodean como un coro
al Inca, en la hora agonizante.
Diez mil peruanos caen
bajo cruces y espadas, la sangre
moja las vestiduras de Atahualpa.
Pizarro, el cerdo cruel de Extremadura
hace amarrar los delicados brazos
del Inca. La noche ha descendido
sobre el Perú como una brasa negra.
THE AGONIES
In Cajamarca began the agony.
The young one Atahualpa,
of the blue yarn, tree family
listened to wind bring up rumor of steel.
It was a confused shine
and trembling from the coast,
an incredible gallop -
from afar and power-
of iron and iron among the grasses.
The advance arrived.
The Inca left their music
surrounded by the men.
The visitors from another planet,
sweated and bearded,
they were going to do their reverence.
The chaplain Valverde,
treacherous heart, rotten jackal,
advances a strange object,
a piece of basket,
a fruit perhaps of that planet
of where the horses come.
Atahualpa takes it.
Does not it know of what it means:
it does not shine, does not sound,
and drops it smiling.
"Death, revenge, I kill you to absolve you"
shouts the jackal of the murderous cross.
The thunder rises with the bandits.
Our blood in its cradle is spilled.
The princes surround as an Incan chorus,
in the dying hour.
Ten thousand Peruvians fall
below crosses and swords,
the blood wets the clothing of Atahualpa.
Pizarro, the cruel hog of Extremadura
ties together the delicate arms of the Inca.
The night has descended on Peru as a
black ember.
En Cajamarca empezó la agonía.
El joven Atahualpa, estambre azul,
árbol insigne, escuchó al viento
traer rumor de acero.
Era un confuso
brillo y temblor desde la costa,
un galope increíble
-piafar y poderío-
de hierro y hierro entre la hierba.
Llegaron los adelantados.
El Inca salió de la música
rodeado por los señores.
Las visitas
de otro planeta, sudadas y barbudas,
iban a hacer la reverencia.
El capellán
Valverde, corazón traidor, chacal podrido,
adelanta un extraño objeto, un trozo
de cesto, un fruto
tal vez de aquel planeta
de donde vienen los caballos.
Atahualpa lo toma. No conoce
de qué se trata: no brilla, no suena,
y lo deja caer sonriendo.
"Muerte,
venganza, matad, que os absuelvo",
grita el chacal de la cruz asesina.
El trueno acude hacia los bandoleros.
Nuestra sangre en su cuna es derramada.
Los príncipes rodean como un coro
al Inca, en la hora agonizante.
Diez mil peruanos caen
bajo cruces y espadas, la sangre
moja las vestiduras de Atahualpa.
Pizarro, el cerdo cruel de Extremadura
hace amarrar los delicados brazos
del Inca. La noche ha descendido
sobre el Perú como una brasa negra.
THE AGONIES
In Cajamarca began the agony.
The young one Atahualpa,
of the blue yarn, tree family
listened to wind bring up rumor of steel.
It was a confused shine
and trembling from the coast,
an incredible gallop -
from afar and power-
of iron and iron among the grasses.
The advance arrived.
The Inca left their music
surrounded by the men.
The visitors from another planet,
sweated and bearded,
they were going to do their reverence.
The chaplain Valverde,
treacherous heart, rotten jackal,
advances a strange object,
a piece of basket,
a fruit perhaps of that planet
of where the horses come.
Atahualpa takes it.
Does not it know of what it means:
it does not shine, does not sound,
and drops it smiling.
"Death, revenge, I kill you to absolve you"
shouts the jackal of the murderous cross.
The thunder rises with the bandits.
Our blood in its cradle is spilled.
The princes surround as an Incan chorus,
in the dying hour.
Ten thousand Peruvians fall
below crosses and swords,
the blood wets the clothing of Atahualpa.
Pizarro, the cruel hog of Extremadura
ties together the delicate arms of the Inca.
The night has descended on Peru as a
black ember.
Last edited by jimboloco on December 3rd, 2004, 7:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Amazing I used your quote in Spanish, searched with Neruda and it came up, then used a translation service, then worked it.
Thanks.
It shows poetry is transcendant stuff.
I got some Neruda books with translations and will look for it.
Picture of what we are doing today in Fallujah.
Picture of what we did in Vietnam.
http://www.zaltho.org/index.html
The man was a gunner on choppers, now a godless zen priest.
"Ibelieve in God and I believe in Claude, that's me."
Thanks.
It shows poetry is transcendant stuff.
I got some Neruda books with translations and will look for it.
Picture of what we are doing today in Fallujah.
Picture of what we did in Vietnam.
http://www.zaltho.org/index.html
The man was a gunner on choppers, now a godless zen priest.
"Ibelieve in God and I believe in Claude, that's me."
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Zlatko Waterman
- Posts: 1631
- Joined: August 19th, 2004, 8:30 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA USA
- Contact:
Main Entry: 1ad ho·mi·nem
Pronunciation: (')ad-'hä-m&-"nem, -n&m
Function: adjective
Etymology: New Latin, literally, to the person
1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
2 : marked by an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made
One entry found for tabula rasa.
Main Entry: ta·bu·la ra·sa
Pronunciation: "ta-by&-l&-'rä-z&, -s&
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural ta·bu·lae ra·sae /-"lI-'rä-"zI, -"sI/
Etymology: Latin, smoothed or erased tablet
1 : the mind in its hypothetical primary blank or empty state before receiving outside impressions
2 : something existing in its original pristine state
OUCH!
Pronunciation: (')ad-'hä-m&-"nem, -n&m
Function: adjective
Etymology: New Latin, literally, to the person
1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
2 : marked by an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made
One entry found for tabula rasa.
Main Entry: ta·bu·la ra·sa
Pronunciation: "ta-by&-l&-'rä-z&, -s&
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural ta·bu·lae ra·sae /-"lI-'rä-"zI, -"sI/
Etymology: Latin, smoothed or erased tablet
1 : the mind in its hypothetical primary blank or empty state before receiving outside impressions
2 : something existing in its original pristine state
OUCH!
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perezoso
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Doreen Peri
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