only losers use guns (VA Tech discussion)

[Scootertrash]

The only description of him I have heard was the he was "Asian" could he have been in the country on a student visa. That is proablaly unrelated but I wondered about it. .

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3048108&page=1

Killer's Note: 'You Caused Me to Do This'Cho Seung-Hui, 23-Year-Old Student, Identified as Gunman
Law enforcement officials have provided this official photo of Cho Seung-hui, the man they identify as the killer at Virginia Tech. Cho was a 23-year-old student of Korean descent who lived on campus. Sources tell ABC News he was carrying a backpack with a receipt for the purchase of a 9 mm handgun.

Premeditated Crime, Not Spur of Moment
University Shooter Identified
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The Investigation: Latest Exclusive Info
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Monumental Massacre at Virginia Tech
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Virginia Tech Shooting

By DAVID SCHOETZ, NED POTTER and RICHARD ESPOSITO

April 17, 2007 — Cho Seung-Hui, the student who killed 32 people and then himself yesterday, left a long and "disturbing" note in his dorm room at Virginia Tech, say law enforcement sources.

Sources have now described the note, which runs several pages, as beginning in the present tense and then shifting to the past tense. It contains rhetoric explaining Cho's actions and says, "You caused me to do this," the sources told ABC News.


Related: Carnage on Campus: Click Here for Full Coverage



Sources say Cho, aged 23, killed two people in a dorm room, returned to his own dorm room where he re-armed and left the note, then went to a classroom building on the other side of campus. There, he killed 30 more people in four classrooms before shooting himself in the head.

Cho, born in South Korea, was a legal resident alien of the United States. He was a senior at Virginia Tech, majoring in English.

Sources tell ABC News Cho bought his first gun, a Glock 9 millimeter handgun, on March 13; they say he bought his second weapon, a .22 caliber pistol, within the last week. The serial numbers on both guns had been filed off, they said.

Authorities found the receipt for the 9 millimeter handgun in Cho's backpack. They say the bag also contained two knives and additional ammunition for the two guns.

Legal permanent resident aliens may purchase firearms in the state of Virginia. A resident alien must, however, provide additional identification to prove he or she is a resident of the state.


Sections of chain similar to those used to lock the main doors at Norris Hall, the site of the second shooting that left 31 dead, were also found inside a Virginia Tech dormitory, sources confirmed to ABC News.



Positive Fingerprint Match

Cho's identity has been confirmed by matching fingerprints on the guns used in the rampage with his immigration records.

"Lab results confirm that one of the two weapons seized in Norris Hall was used in both shootings," Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said at a press conference Tuesday morning.

At this time, police are not looking for a second shooter, though they did not rule out the possibility that Cho could have had an accomplice.

Full coverage continues on "World News With Charles Gibson," and an ABC network special Tuesday at 10 p.m. EDT

Cho, according to law enforcement officials, had entered the country through Detroit with his family in 1992, at the age of eight. He last renewed his green card in 2003. As of yesterday, his home address was listed as Centreville, Va., and the university reported he was living in a campus dormitory, Harper Hall.

Cho's parents live in Fairfax County, Va., an affluent Washington suburb. He graduated from Westfield High School there in 2003.


"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," said Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker.

[eyelidlessness]

Some of you are saying violence as american as apple pie. Is that a condition one would get after being in america for a few months or years if it turns out he was not an american after all.

Well, I listed quite a few American acts of violence that affect non-Americans primarily. It shouldn't be a big surprise when someone responds in kind.

The shooter is apparently South Korean. There was a US war in Korea which never technically ended. We maintain heavy military presence in South Korea to this day, and the threat of war as provoked by the US and North Korea hangs over South Korea pretty ominously.

Scootertrash: I looked around but haven't been able to find it... do you know if the note's been published in any online news source? I'd like to read it. Apparently it rails against "rich kids", which definitely speaks to my comment about hand-wringing over the privileged.[/quote]

[stilltrucking]

Thanks to scooter I know he came here in 1992 when he was eight. 15 years plenty of time to become enculturated. He might as well been american.

I don't know what you mean about somebody responds in kind. What does some wacko killing innocent people have to do with the Korean war. He killed two students, I bet one of those was a woman maybe who turned him down. Then after he kills the first two he goes back to his room and rearms and thinks about something for an hour or two later and goes back and kills thirty more. I don't know nothing about his motives do you? I heard there was some kind of note.

[Doreen Peri]

I can't find anything about a note anywhere. All I found was that he wrote violent plays.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/vtech. ... index.html

Though your point is well taken, eyelidlessness, that the US has committed many violent acts that have primarily affected non-Americans, it doesn't appear to me that this incident has anything to do with that fact.

Looks to me like we have a kid who just went nuts. I don't think he was making any type of political statement and it doesn't look like to me that it had anything to do with the fact that he was of Korean decent.

Maybe I'm wrong. Who knows, at this point? If the note is made public and really says, "You caused me to do this," maybe there are more clues in the note about his motives and we'll find out you're right with your assessment.

[eyelidlessness]

I don't know what you mean about somebody responds in kind. What does some wacko killing innocent people have to do with the Korean war.

Well, the US-Korean war (not unlike any other US war I can think of apart from certain aspects of World War II) was largely an act of wackos killing innocent people.

Like I said, the US maintains a military presence in South Korea, which could very possibly provoke a war with the north. This is not only a constant reminder of a brutal war a half-century past, but a reminder that it could resume at any time. I mean, the US is still legally at war with North Korea, and they have been sabre-rattling for a long time. I'm not saying this was a motivation for Cho, but I'm addressing the question of how US violence could drive non-Americans to violence, with specific reference to the particular place from which the particular gunman came.

I don't know nothing about his motives do you? I heard there was some kind of note.

Not really sure. I know I was spot-on about privilege, judging by his comments about "rich kids". Beyond that, I'm only offering guesses and what insight I have into violence. It seemed more appropriate to try to find sense in the act than to claim that it's without reason.

All I'm saying is that it takes a village to raise a murderer.

* * * Edit * * *

Though your point is well taken, eyelidlessness, that the US has committed many violent acts that have primarily affected non-Americans, it doesn't appear to me that this incident has anything to do with that fact.

Looks to me like we have a kid who just went nuts. I don't think he was making any type of political statement and it doesn't look like to me that it had anything to do with the fact that he was of Korean decent.

I didn't say it does. I was addressing the broader question: how could American violence drive non-Americans to violence?

Maybe I'm wrong. Who knows, at this point? If the note is made public and really says, "You caused me to do this," maybe there are more clues in the note about his motives and we'll find out you're right with your assessment.

Right now I'm not saying what I think his motives were, but so far all the sources I've seen that mention the note confirm that he wrote "you caused me to do this" and specifically mentioned "rich kids". That's an indication to me that he had some grievances, justified or not. It may have been an inappropriate response, but it wasn't senseless, and a culture of violence makes it all the less surprising.

As I said in my first post... in a culture where murder of innocents is revered and sanctioned, unsanctioned murder of innocents shouldn't be that surprising.

[stilltrucking]

You maybe right about that. I am not trying to sound like the politics of despair, I just don't know yet. But 45 people were killed in Iraq yesterday and I do see a connection there. Or maybe it was because of the way the Palestinians are treated by the USA. Or maybe he was the Manchurian Candidate? We will know more as the story unfolds. I just hope DP don't get no more sad e-mails.

On a somewhat related note:
I am reading Failed States by Chomsky

Hard going but worth the trouble.

[eyelidlessness]

If you get a chance, check out Culture of Make Believe by Derrick Jensen.

[Arcadia]

sad.

[hester_prynne]

I have to say eyelidlessness that you make an interesting point. Why is it so surprizing when we do it all the time. Why does this instance wake up the deadhearts while other incidents such as war and wacko presidents we sleep right through.
Perhaps incidents like this are a mechanism for waking the dead.
But it seems even incidents like this tragedy do not sustain awakeness, that sleep comes the instant the novelty wears off.
What will the news be tommorrow. How many are already tired of all the air time this gets.
HOW CAN WE STOP VIOLENCE FOR GODDAMMITS SAKE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!.
Dont' get me started....
My deepest prayers and condolences go to all of the familes, friends and us.

H

[stilltrucking]

yes sad
Blacksburg is a jewel
this is appalachia Arcadia
traditionally one the poorest area of the US
made a miraculous high tech rebirth by VT
What makes my amygdyala snap to attention is that the authorities were troubled by his poetry. Several english jprofessors were very concerned by it. So was this a language crime?

cutting and pasting from the washingtonpost.com

Cho (whose full name is pronounced joh sung-wee) appears first to have alarmed the noted Virginia Tech poet Nikki Giovanni in a creative writing class in fall 2005, Giovanni said.

Days later, seven of Giovanni's 70 or so students showed up for a class. She asked them why the others didn't show up and was told that they were afraid of Cho.

"Once I realized my class was scared, I knew I had to do something," she said.

Roy, now the alumni distinguished professor of English and co-director of the creative writing program, said university officials were responsive and sympathetic to her warnings but indicated that because Cho had made no direct threats, there was little they could do.

[bohonato]

So was this a language crime?

I don't think so. Its just profiling based in psychology. And you can bet you ass if they weren't concerned before the shooting about it, there would have been a shit storm afterwards (oh boy the blame game!)

In a slightly related topic, this is a great article written by Marilyn Manson written after the Columbine shootings (when the media was busy blaming him for societies ills, when the shooters didn't even like him). I'm not a huge fan of his music, but I've always loved this:

http://www.catholicboy.com/catholicboy. ... manson.asp

[Dave The Dov]

bohonato - Jim Carroll was being blamed in part for the Columbine Massacre as well. It had to do with a passage in his book "The Basketball Diaries" where he wrote about imaging firing off a gun in class. So as to break the boredom that he was going through that day. There was a scene from the movie based in put on the book in which the main character is shown in a fantasy sequence killing some class mates in a shoot out. The director took some artistic liberties and changed that scene in the book around instead. The general public took notice at how the main character was dressed in that scene. He is wearing an outfit that was similar to the ones that the two boys who did the shootings at Columbine were wearing too. When the general public saw this they blamed him for contributing to that shooting at Columbine. I think Jim Carroll said that the community around Columbine should have blamed itself rather then him. Because that was were the fault was to be found. People try to find blame in the easy thing first when these events take place.
_________________
Honda CR-V

[Arcadia]

So was this a language crime?

curious, I didn´t know about it. Maybe it´s a prejudice of mine, but it feels odd that super.structured.formal institutions (as your universities looks like from the distance) have inside themselves creative writing departments... I think I would prefer to write in a bar with some friends instead...

[e_dog]

the creative writing depts. are just a trick to screen potential subversive characters. censors read over the writings to see if theres any fantasies about killing people, rape, robbery, etc. unless it threatens the president, though, they just let them through with warnings.

we need stricter gun control. and better government oversight of poets!

Jim Carrol is to blame. Homer is responsible for all wars.

[Totenkopf]

Nearly as appalling as the murders are the blame games that follow: teeee-churz said he should have been in counseling, and some malefactor let him off the hook. BS. Weirder still is the sudden surge in the Dow--- Causal relation? Investors dig mass murder, maybe.

The spree was a real tragedy, but then nearly as many people die every day in Baghdad, or various other ratholes of the world. And while gun control is not so great across the board, a more effective way of screening guns (metal detectors on campuses, or checkpoints, etc) could possibly have prevented it.