What am I missing here?

[Doreen Peri]

Oh and Deb? You're right. Sometimes I ACT like a cop. Here I am doing it, huh? LOL!

Good call.

[Doreen Peri]

Off topic... (sorta)

Today I'm going to edge my garden. My friend told me the reason I think I'm so weak and cannot dig with the shovel I have is because I need a different type of shovel.... one with a pointed end on it. A spade.

So I need to go buy myself a spade.

I think everybody should own one.



(Sorry, Imus humor. Not funny? Depends on whether you take words seriously or not. If Imus said that on the air, would he have gotten fired? Are you ready to have me fired, Deb? Schtick. That's all. *shrug* again.)

Here's a white joke.

Last week I was visiting some friends in a mountain community in Georgia. They had some really delicious brie in their refrigerator and we wanted a snack.

So, I asked if they had any crackers.

The hostess said to me, "This is the hills of Georgia! We never run outa crackers around here!"



Imus stop now.

[Doreen Peri]

Lenny Bruce. Is this funny?

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[whimsicaldeb]

Morning Doreen,

I read your replies over again this morning, with fresh eyes. Personally, I went to bed last night feeling good about all that's taken place, because of all that's been worked through.

It does comes down to respect; but it's how we have different ways of showing and expecting our respect that's the problem, because we opposite ways and meanings for showing/living our respects and disrespect.

Interesting isn't it - you'd think with thing like respect and showing it would be the same for all, but it's not.

For me, and within my group of friends, being honest and direct with each other is normal. We use judging, judgment as a means for determination, critical thinking/analysis and speaking of our observations is encouraged and is the primary means of making our decisions. Making/taking the time an effort to express our opinions and what we're thinking and way for it allows to clear the air of any misconceptions we may have about/with each other or the situation, and allows us to see what we've personally missed, overlooked, or hadn't considered ... and doing it constantly keep it (the air clean) that way. So, within the group that I hang out with, doing all this with each other IS us being respectful to each other.

So, we have very different ways of expecting/showing our respect, different versions of what’s nice and what isn’t, and they're don’t mesh well.

Where you're seeing people getting along, I'm seeing a predominance for avoidance and where you're seeing people being nice to each other, I’m seeing rabid codependency …

None the less, you are happy, having fun and being loving in your "dysfunction" (as you called) as I have out of it.

Isn't it interesting that you’re censoring me, restricting my own “free speech” on this board because of 'name calling' - which is the same thing that’s happened to Imus, and also happens to be one of the things you felt strongly about having happened to him. We learn a lot when shoes suddenly end up on our other foot, don't we?

Unlike Imus … I understand (truly) and have no need to flame about it all, nor do I feel wronged in anyway. … (for those of you who like to compare me to Imus – I hope you’ll include that in your comparisons as well)

But my way of expressing and yours are different, and I'm not going to begin talking and acting like you/others here - because that's not me.
And no, I’m not going to start talking about you behind your back because by my vales, that’s being terribly disrespectful. And as you ... I live my life by my own values; not someone elses.

Equally, I’m not apologizing to hester for the same reasons, by my values what I said to hester was caring, truthful, and valuable and nothing that needs to be apologized for, regardless of how you or she or others here see it.

...



yin/yang
If you don't have your opposite, you can't have the whole; and within each opposite is the ability to accept and understand your opposite and each opposite holds their own.

...


The title of this thread was "What am I missing here?"

Well, what was missing was the opposite views/ideas/understandings and expression of what had already been posted here.

I saw that, saw what was missing, and brought it ...

Now (with hind site) if you had wanted it all done differently, done in a particularly way, then you should have done it for yourself (selves). Had I seen that you were doing that for yourselves, I would have never enter this thread. Which is why I stay out of most threads here ... most of the time, on most subjects, you do that already.

But you didn’t do that here, in this thread, with this subject …so you got me. Deal with it, learn from it, get over it, and move on.

As far as I'm concerned there is nothing personal between us left unresolved, and nothing left for us to do but talk about the subject at hand (instead of each other).

[mnaz]

Like I said, Imus did screw up. I don't think anyone ever claimed what he said was strictly OK, because it wasn't. Then again, who decides where the line is? Who is allowed to say what? In the evolving court of public opinion and perception, other "shock" entertainers/artists (e.g. Chappelle) could probably get away with saying the same thing (or close) that got Imus fired. Why?

I'm not a fan of Imus, and he manages to put off even his fans at times due to his style. Is it a style that should go out of style? Personally, I have no problem with that. Shock entertainers have a risky job in general because their "job" is essentially to keep "pushing the envelope" and tread controversial ground. It's irreverent and even deplorable at times, but there's apparently a sizable market for it, despite any personal objections I may have. We're supposed to have a thing called free (public) speech in this country with few restrictions. If it was "time for Imus to go", I'd rather the free market decided that instead of a (seemingly) random public "lynch mob" and media feeding frenzy.

But that's what was already happening... with sponsors' boycotts and high profile journalists forced to shy away from the show. Perhaps the market in time would have fired Imus anyway. "Moot point", perhaps.

Even though I found the public outcry somewhat random and/or out of proportion to the crime ( for all the reasons I've stated in this thread), I suppose we can say the right to free speech allowed Deb and others who felt very strongly on this issue to protest Imus' statement vigorously, as it also allowed me to call into question the nature and proportionality of said protest.

That's all good. That is the stuff of powerful discourse and potential breakthrough. I could envision this thread unfolding in a way quite different from how it actually did, even with the same players, because I don't think we're all that far apart on these issues. Not really. At least not so far apart that we're incapable of comprehending the others' POV. But look at the energy and time that was wasted when people decided to go on the attack and make it personal. The rancor in this thread seemed incredibly counterproductive and draining... to me, at least... and none of it was really necessary. (And yes, I'm not entirely innocent here).

We're a small community and we all seem to be basically good, open-minded people with an ability to think for ourselves; each with our own "quirks". Some may be better informed on certain subjects and not as informed on others. That's OK. We can talk about it. We all should be able to talk about virtually anything without resorting to personal mudslinging. I don't see why not.

And Deb, you're in denial if you don't think your tone was abusive and condescending in an unnecessarily personal way in this thread. Seriously. I don't care how enlightened you are-- that is no way to talk to a human being you hardly know. And I'll leave it at that. I will not debate that point any more because it seems fairly self-evident and straightforward.

[Doreen Peri]

Yes, I believe we don't see eye to eye when it comes to what it means to respect someone, Deb. My friends might take each other aside and say things privately to each other about suggestions for improvements in their lives. But they don't sit in a room together and tell each other they're fat, stupid, or unacceptable in any way.

And yes, I'm not only censoring YOU, I'm censoring everyone who calls other people names on this site.

If you think that will lead to boring and "codependant" discussions, oh well, your loss, I guess.

You said

Isn't it interesting that you’re censoring me, restricting my own “free speech” on this board because of 'name calling' - which is the same thing that’s happened to Imus, and also happens to be one of the things you felt strongly about having happened to him. We learn a lot when shoes suddenly end up on our other foot, don't we?

Yes, it's the same thing, meaning that how can you say you have the right to call people names but Imus doesn't?

But it's not the same in that people like Imus and Lenny Bruce are doing comedy routines. You might not like their taste in comedy, but they are (were, in the case of Lenny Bruce) comics whose schtick it is to make fun of people or make fun of language restrictions.

If Imus or Lenny Bruce (when he was alive) came to my house for a party, I would hand them a mic to do their comedy routine. But if they started personally insulting my guests, I would tell them they needed to stop it.

The difference is the PERSONAL level of it.

Imus did not point to one lady on the basketball team, name her by name and call her a HO. No, he was doing the same exact thing that Lenny Bruce was doing in the above routine, except for Lenny Bruce was MUCH more funny, in my opinion.

I loved Lenny Bruce.

Are Lenny Bruce fans bigots?

In my opinion, there's much left to talk about. This thread went off on tangents of personal insults. It veered from the topic of whether comedy routines should be censored based on the fact that some consider them in poor taste.

I say no, they shouldn't be censored. Lenny Bruce went to jail for this concept. I applaud him.

But I say yes, people should learn to stop insulting each other personally.

Big difference.

[jimboloco]

Actually I don't really like the cartoon.
It tries to show Sharpton as hypocrite
and really panders to folks who want to excuse this sort of thing as not really that bad. There is a debate about situational ethics that needs further elucidation, like when a comic uses profanity and other demeaning terminology during a mainstream talk show in the morning with prominent
politicians and newsmakers.

If you censure Deb then you may as well censure me also
I called Jack Tiles a latent rascist.
Hester said I am arrogant.

I called MNAZ a nappy headed desert rat.

one of our patients today(i am at work) has a worm in his brain and he tried to give me a pair of his underwear. I held it up to me and did a dance for the ladies.

[Doreen Peri]

If you censure Deb then you may as well censure me also
I called Jack Tiles a latent rascist.
Hester said I am arrogant.

As I said, I'm a nazi maybe.. I'm censoring all of you.

(I mean, to the extent that I CAN!)

You can ignore me and say whatever you like if you want. I'm not gonna ban anybody. That would be stupid.

But I will say PLEASE stop calling each other names.

OK?

[whimsicaldeb]

I thought this commentary was good...

excerpted from:
Greater Good In Imus Exit
May 5, 2007
Stan Simpson

... Imus' planned lawsuit keeps his name in the news. The repercussions of his ouster, however, are more noteworthy. The hiring of Whitaker at NBC is significant. The media's long-standing shame is that - though it talks persuasively about the need to change the complexion of its largely homogeneous management and staff - its actions don't match the rhetoric.

"There's been a severe deficiency in diversity and as a result there's been a lack of sensitivity in many areas," said Rich Hanley, assistant professor of journalism at Quinnipiac University." I think the media is going to be more aggressive in this area. It must."

One of the realities of Imus and his entertaining and often insulting humor is that he made some folks comfortable with their own bigotry. Though the Rutgers case centered on race with Imus' now infamous "nappy headed hos" comment, it was also an issue about gender stereotypes. As a result, noted feminists Gloria Steinem and Jane Fonda formed a New York-based Women's Media Center to monitor and influence media coverage of women.

Imus' impact is loud and clear.

Yes it is.

[whimsicaldeb]

Deb. My friends might take each other aside and say things privately to each other about suggestions for improvements in their lives. But they don't sit in a room together and tell each other they're fat, stupid, or unacceptable in any way.

Neither do mine, and I haven't either. Go back and look again and see for yourself.

[jimboloco]

well i accept your censure with gratitude

since i know it is about attitude
with some latitude


http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20 ... 238432.jpg

i am censured.

[stilltrucking]

I think it is time to change the subject, how about racoons?

WD wrote on another board:

Example: I work closely with a woman who INSISTS that global warming is made-up; not real at all. So if we were to talk about that we'd be at odds. So you know what - we DON'T talk about it. Instead we talk about what we both love ... Racoons and raptors (Birds of Prey), and her cats - and her most beautiful (BEAUTIFUL!) art. And her husbands great photography...

It's about relationships - Jack


I know I'm accurate; and I also know the score; what more is needed? I don't need to go around harping at them to feel my accuracy. I don't have to allow it to interfere with my love for them all - and luckily; they haven't allowed theirs to interfer with theirs for me.

We all live in a yellow submarine
and nobdoy hates anybody here

[whimsicaldeb]

“There can be no transforming of darkness into light and of apathy into movement without emotion” – Carl Jung

And with emotions (especially deep passionate emotions) comes debris.

Doreen, the kind of communication you're looking for, desiring, didn't happening before now because it couldn't. That type of communication is an 'end' result, and comes/forms naturally after all the debris (the hard feelings/name calling etc) have had a chance to be flushed out.

The lines of communication were clogged. In the process of them clearing out ... name calling happened, as it's going too, it's a natural as part of the clearing process.

Everyone here posted their share AND before you began this censorship thing, I saw everyone here voluntarily/willingly begin removing their contributed shares as this was unfolding. I saw each person here naturally moving into self-censorship as things progressed ... and that's always better then forcing/enforcing censorship upon others.

I think you jumped the gun/over reacted (it's okay/understandable) but I don't think your censorship gun in actually needed here, in this thread.

I suggest ~ Let it go ...

And too bad Imus didn't do it (begin self-censoring more). Quite possibly he could have saved his job if he had.

That's my 2cents

[mnaz]

Never mind.

I've had it with this thread.

[stilltrucking]

I just don't know what the point is mnaz
I get condenscended to all the time here
I figure I got it coming
Me and WD been at for a long time.
I respect her intelligence
But she scared the hell out me once
SHe reminded me so much of my father Crazy Mike, he could have been a mind reader I suppose. He always seemed to know what was on my mind.

So here comes WD and she can look into my soul and know what I am thinking and who I am, some white guy in his sixties bla h blah

YOu here what I am saying
WD is very good at "typing" people.

THis is hester's post I think she should have the final say, but I wish the hell doreen would lock it all ready