Ban on Most Abortions Advances in South Dakota

[stilltrucking]

Cecil I still stand by my air breather versus ocean breather.

Firsty like I said you have issues I don't. Nothing wrong with that, but you coming back to me like one of those guys who bitch about men's rights. You must have somme bitter experience with women to think the way you do. Just my opinion.

. Undernutrition is an underlying cause of 53% of all deaths in children aged younger than 5 years. T

From your quote. Is that something like starvation. Cecil I think this is a mockery we got here in the USA . I feel so sorry for Laura Bush, you know she wanted the peckerhead to appoint a woman to the Supreme COurt. We rubbing salt in the wounds here. No democracy for women in the usa, not as bad as some arab countries but woeful under represetation on courts legislatrues congress

time for a pink revolution.

[Diana Moon Glampers]

I think first tri mester abortions should be pretty much on demand but I think the doctors and nurses should check out what is going on in the woman's life, not just do a prodedure. Someone should care enough to listen to her tale of woe. Maybe they could help her avoid the situation with some sound advice or a reference to resources that could help her. Late term abortions when there is a possibility of the embryo surviving on its own require more scuitiny.

[stilltrucking]

Only if she wants to hear the advice. It should not be a therapy session to talk her out of it. Supposedly she is an adult and has made her decision. I have only been through one woman's abortion. She pretty well knew what her problem was. Me. Do you have to have a referal from a doctor? I mean do you just walk in off the street and no questions asked. Just do it and leave?

I have heard and I don't know if it is true but I have read somewhere that abortions could have medical consequenches years later. my god consequenches

I mean like an old war wound comes back to haunt you in old age.

[firsty]

ah yes free choice. imonna start marching for my right to choose my neighbors. i want them all to be drenched in blue paint. and should by the luck of political wind there passes a law, let it never be second guessed.

i think this has gone off somewhere. i think my original point was that there should be more oral sex and fewer abortions, and if prochoice people want true choice, they better start convincing people that it's more than just a choice issue and also a valid moral stand to allow this particular choice (all thieves are asking for is their right to choose to steal. you can be arrested for trying to commit suicide, for making that choice. "choice" has nothing to do with it, really). i think that boxing people into categories like edog has done (i'm a prolife FANATIC now!) is the wrong thing to do, and i think a lot of that comes from the social standard impression that a woman's right to choose an abortion is inherent, like choosing what clothes to wear, instead of something MORE, something that might warrant a deeper exploration.

st, i aint bitter yo. i just call em like i see em. you see me as mens rights, i see me as a true feminist hoping someday for gender equality and not double standards. i'm a feminist and a menist and a humanist and a human who's not afraid to have an opinion and state it in such a way that even tho many of you agree with me (you think abortions arent the best thing, that there are too many and that itd be nice if things were different) you think that because of the way maybe i object to abortions instead of sucking up to social standards that i fall into a certain box. when actually i'm just second guessing something.

anyway, i stand by it. i think prolifers would be better off parading pictures of oral sex than pictures of dead babies and i think that the religious nuts are hurting their bigger effort by focusing too much on avoiding what they call sodomy and i think that too many abortions are abortions of convenience and not what prochoice advocates would have you think based on "exceptions for rape and incest!" as if the exceptions they think the right wing is ignoring are the norm.

and in saying that, the ramrod of objections came down hard and well it brought out one true extreme - someone said something about abortions as liberation! - and it seemed to think that i had no compassion and that i was opposed to current law (tho i stated that i wasnt twice). see how easy it is to box people? and o someone said something about fearing feminists. God forbid, too, we discuss abortion of all places here where progressive thought rules apparently but s'long as it fits. heheh.

hey that dont mean nothin. nobody really commented on any of my real points anyway cept to take the party line this was more boring that it coulda been.

firsty OUT!

[stilltrucking]

i think my original point was that there should be more oral sex and fewer abortions,

That is good firsty.


Sounds like a good program to me. But
but Meanwhile a woman may still have to have an abortion. As long as their are sick fuckers around like me.

Not about sexual practices right now it iw about power, this is about christianity and morals and family values and the man is the head of the household and Eve from Adams rib and it is all her fault and prasise the lord and pass the ammunition

and got dam Laura bush must be crying herselft to sleep you know she wanted another woman on the supreme court

[abcrystcats]

OK, Firsty, I read all your posts and everyone else's too. All six pages of debate. And it got pretty boring.

Let me just get on your side when it comes to this:

many of you agree with me (you think abortions arent the best thing, that there are too many and that itd be nice if things were different) you think that because of the way maybe i object to abortions instead of sucking up to social standards that i fall into a certain box. when actually i'm just second guessing something

I agree that there are WAY too many abortions and it comes down to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. And anyone who was born with a uterus ought to personally be aware that she could become pregnant as a result of having sex and she ought to take aggressive action to prevent that outcome if she wants to engage in sexual intercourse and NOT become pregnant.

Furthermore, I think that even if the woman does all of the above, she should think in advance what she would do if she actually gets pregnant in spite of all her precautions. She should plan ahead and think of options, other than abortion, which will carry her through such an event.

If every woman did the above, we would have far fewer abortions and the world would be a better place.

It is, in my opinion, a biological injustice that MEN do not have to think through all this, preparing and preventing and assuming worst outcomes.

Even so, I am against abortion in moral principle for all but the most extreme cases -- that means rape, incest, and other victims of brutality or extreme poverty.

What I can't answer is this: In spite of all of my knowing and being able to articulate what is morally right, the world is full of moral IDIOTS. The world is full of people who act without thinking and think without acting and then they say they DIDN'T KNOW. These people disgust me. I truly don't want more children to be born to people like this, for them to abuse and neglect. At best, these people will raise their children and teach them the morality they themselves have learned.

I don't like abortion, but I like the people that put themselves in the position to have them -- even less.

I don't like abortion, but I like the population explosion on our planet FARRRR LESS!!!

I don't know what to do -- to advocate abortion means to advocate the termination of a possible life. I hate that! But to outlaw it means promoting the birth of the unwanted, the neglected, the misguided. It means promoting the expansion of the human race beyond all reasonable bounds (and god knows we need all the hinderances we can get at this point!) even including children who were hated from the moment they were conceived.

It truly does seem to me to be a choice between the lesser of two evils.

For those people (and there are many) who can't fathom the complexities of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, what would I choose? Would I choose to back them into a corner to have their children anyways? Or would I choose to let them gracefully bow out? I think the world is a far better place for letting them abdicate a responsibility that they never "got" in the first place!

In your eyes, that may not be a moral choice, but you have missed the point that this is not a moral world in the first place. It never has been. Dream on. This is an evil place, and we are the evil people that exist within it. The best we can do is choose practical outcomes. For every negligent set of copulators to produce a child is not a practical outcome. Not even if they were all adopted by state mandate. We'd still have too many people in the world and probably far too many socially irresponsible people, overall.

To me, the question isn't whether or not abortion is a MORAL choice. It's obvious to me that it's not a moral choice, and it never can be. The question is -- what's the alternative?

I'm sick of the liberal answers to this question -- which say that we can provide a loving home for EVERY child. Bullshit.Have we done it yet? What about the millions of starving and deprived children living and suffering now, throughout the world? Until we provide for them, we need to shut the fuck up about the alleged morality of aborting potential life. Let's get our priorities straight, at least.

I am pro-choice, reluctantly, because I see it as the only way out in the current world.

[stilltrucking]

I don't like abortion, but I like the people that put themselves in the position to have them -- even less.

[MrGuilty]

sorry doreeen I wont be posting any more of my open text box spontaneous gibberish... No more deletions. after these

[gypsyjoker]

Deleted sponataneous gibberish

[mtmynd]

Pro-choice / Pro-life... we have all approached this topic in what we think but what we think and what choice a woman takes is ulitmately her own... be damn what we think!

Since when should what we think about anything hamper what others have chosen to do? Yes, we judgemental humans, choosing not only what we choose but choosing what should be legal for others... it's outta control all due to our collective thoughts (which are always at odds with others) on what, when, where, why, who and even how another should choose in this world that has given all of us choice... free will, to select that which we, individually, feel is best for our own being.

Abortion or no abortion... a delicate decision between the mother and her fetus. Whichever she should decide on should offer safety, comfort and compassion. Anything short of that stinks of judgemental oppression.

[MrGuilty]

I got to delete my posts mtmynd. Your reply is the compassionate truth

[mtmynd]

Nah, Jack... don't start deleting again.. it looks dumb.

[tinkerjack]

too late but I saved them I will put it back.

thanks for the modulation,
I am dumb. I think Diana Moon Glampers is the sock pupette that fits me best. Too dam dumb to live. I got take a break from here. Quit this place for a while.

deleted from posts above

On earth there are actually seven sexes, all necessary to the production of children; earthlings just do not notice the sex difference between themselves because many of the sex acts occur in the fourth dimension.


“The Tralfamadorians tried to give Billy clues that would help him imagine sex in the invisible dimension. They told him that there could be no Earthling babies without male homosexuals. There could be babies without female homosexuals. There couldn’t be babies without women over sixty-five years old. There could be babies without men over sixty-five. There couldn’t be babies without other babies who had lived an hour or less after birth. And so on. It was gibberish to Billy.” (114)

another sock puppet heard from.

He cries for her, he cries for himself, he crieds for lost life, he cries for you.

Yes I suppose you are right after all. Women have got a bad deal from the creator.

As I look back on my high school career. Look back almost fifty years, not many teachers stand out. One does my math teacher, Miss Reese. Their were two of them The Reese sisters both teachers at our school, both unmarried and childless and they seemed to be living the good life. Miss Reese tough fair. amd a great sense of humor. She could cut through any bullshit story about undone home work with a one liner that would leave you smiling even with the Zero she gave for the unfinished homework. I think she could be the avatar for the old spinster school teacher. I wonder if she ever thought of me with as much affecttion as I have thought of her.
I like the bit from vonnegut.

Cut and Paste

On earth there are actually seven sexes, all necessary to the production of children; earthlings just do not notice the sex difference between themselves because many of the sex acts occur in the fourth dimension.


“The Tralfamadorians tried to give Billy clues that would help him imagine sex in the invisible dimension. They told him that there could be no Earthling babies without male homosexuals. There could be babies without female homosexuals. There couldn’t be babies without women over sixty-five years old. There could be babies without men over sixty-five. There couldn’t be babies without other babies who had lived an hour or less after birth. And so on. It was gibberish to Billy.” (114)

Not so bad being an old maiden uncle, all my siblings have children.

[stilltrucking]

That was not quite all of it, i lost the part about the laughing man

this is how the begining looked

I don't like abortion, but I like the people that put themselves in the position to have them -- even less.

that was the first sock puppet then I posted again saying some like this.


He is laughing to keep ffrom crying. Cause you would not have like spiderwoman at all. Her body bore the insult, and found solace and moved on. I am a weak man. I have PTSD from the incident.

then I wandered into the vonnegut stuff this all from memory

[sooZen]

I admit it...Cecil directed me here, otherwise I wouldn't have read this thread or even seen it but since I have and did...

I have two children, both times I used some form of birth control, both were unplanned or unexpected.

One of these children is Down's Syndrome and his Down's is not the regular trisomy 21...in other words, according to geneticists, he is a totally new mutation...special to just Cecil and I and our genes.

This child had a genetic type of cancer when he was two and has had health problems all his life (he is now 29) directly linked to his genes.

I didn't plan on having him but my birth control failed...it failed with all my pregnancies. I consider myself a fairly educated woman, able to understand the consequences of my actions but things happen and unexpectedly at that.

I got pregnant again after my boys. Again not planned (certainly not since I knew at that time of Cec and I's genetic tendencies when we had children...one out of 100 would be "normal" and I had already had that one...)

I had an abortion. I Have NO Regrets. It was my decision and he noted that and supported whatever I decided.

(an aside: As my daddy once told me, "There are too many people in this world and most of them are no damn good..." Over population of the human species is what is killing this globe and all of the other species on it.)

Abortion is and should be (like my mate said) a personal choice. It has or should have nothing to do with what society wants (or the men that run our societies want) and everything to do with what that woman (or girl) feels about the situation and herself. But it is a penile world we live in...

My plug nickle...