the military’s soul-searching over Iraq

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stilltrucking
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the military’s soul-searching over Iraq

Post by stilltrucking » October 13th, 2007, 5:20 pm

At an Army School, Blunt Talk on Iraq
By ELISABETH BUMILLER 3:15 PM ET
Fort Leavenworth, Kan., the intellectual center of the U.S. Army, has become a front line in the military’s soul-searching over Iraq



“The secretary of defense is an easy target,” argued one of the officers, Maj. Kareem P. Montague, 34, a Harvard graduate and a commander in the Third Infantry Division that was the first to reach Baghdad in the 2003 invasion. “It’s easy to pick on the political appointee.”

“But he’s the one that’s responsible,” retorted Maj. Michael J. Zinno, 40, a military planner who worked at the headquarters of the Coalitional Provisional Authority, the former American civilian administration in Iraq.

No, Major Montague shot back, it was more complicated: the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the top commanders were part of the decision to send in a small invasion force and not enough troops for the occupation. Only Gen. Eric K. Shinseki, the Army chief of staff who was sidelined after he told Congress that it would take several hundred thousand troops in Iraq, spoke up in public.

“You didn’t hear any of them at the time, other than General Shinseki, screaming, saying that this was untenable,” Major Montague said.

As the war grinds through its fifth year, Fort Leavenworth has become a front line in the military’s tension and soul-searching over Iraq. Here at the base on the bluffs above the Missouri River, once a frontier outpost that was a starting point for the Oregon Trail, rising young officers are on a different journey — an outspoken re-examination of their role in Iraq.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/14/us/14 ... ref=slogin
Ex-Commander Says Iraq Effort Is ‘a Nightmare’

WASHINGTON, Oct. 12 — In a sweeping indictment of the four-year effort in Iraq, the former top commander of American forces there called the Bush administration’s handling of the war “incompetent” and said the result was “a nightmare with no end in sight.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/13/washi ... al.html?hp

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mnaz
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Post by mnaz » October 20th, 2007, 11:33 pm

There's a simple, Missouri-style solution to all of this hijacked Bush-Corp. mess...

#1. Show me.

#2. Choose your battles wisely.

(This mindset/ethic would have helped the U S of A a great deal four and a half years ago. Next time, maybe?)

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stilltrucking
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Post by stilltrucking » October 22nd, 2007, 7:57 pm

#2. Choose your battles wisely.
Yes, Armageddon?

I don't lose no sleep over it.
But maybe I should.

Well just about a year to go
till next Halloween
and the 2008 elections.

I don't watch horror movies anymore
Just the preachers on God TV Inc.

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jimboloco
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Post by jimboloco » November 5th, 2007, 1:06 pm

you would make a fine preacher
in fact i might start calling you "rev"
but you are a mere disaffected layman
with an unrabid dawg
and a feral cat for friends

ah yes we should have waited another year, instituted the draft,
built up a land invasion force of half a million
with body armor and armored personnell carriers worth a damn
then we could of won, duh

gee i yam such a bright free thinking major
doing this free thinking field occifurs course
and we made the press too

the show me state is home to the stealth bombers
but i agree choose yer battles

i got another damn letter to write
[color=darkcyan]i'm on a survival mission
yo ho ho an a bottle of rum om[/color]

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stilltrucking
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Post by stilltrucking » November 5th, 2007, 3:23 pm

you all pick your battles I'll pick mine.

Pacifism is dirty work but somebody has to do it.

Always plenty of warriors, a few pacifists sure could not hurt.

Speaking of dissafected layman
.

Quakers been good to me jim
I don't believe they have laymen.
I could be wrong
I know less about Quakerism than I do about Judaism. And I don't know jack shit about Judaism.


Preacher? Ok please send you love offerings, cash or money orders, checks or stamps.

My sermon for today is taken from the seventh chapter of the book of yabyum if he don't mind.
there is only you. there is only you staring at you. there is only what you tell you. you tell you your own beliefs. Be Leaf.
but it is all in there like in the old tv ads for Ragu Speghetti sauce
Christ, Buddha, every enlightened being, every life giving myth
it is all within us. Don't give up.

I been crazy a long time jim
I have gotten pretty comfortable with it.
My family has been tolerant of me
and I have been lucky to make a few friends who are tolerant also.

Warriors fine
but this ain't Japan two hundred years ago
Warriors not armies
that is okay with me

Pacifism is good enough for Ferlinghetti, it is good enough for me
cause blessed are those who have not seen yet believe.

I got to go
I am done with Iraq
if anyone ever starts talking about it with me again, I am going to say.

"You mean we are still fighting in Iraq?. I don't keep up with the news as much as I should. I thought the war was over. I remember the president saying that all combat operations were over. That was over four years ago. Are you sure the war is still going on?

Sorry I started this thread.
What was I thinking?

Not trying to cop out
just doing what I can
I think the best I can do now is be silent.

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jimboloco
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Post by jimboloco » November 5th, 2007, 5:02 pm

silent day
i wanna be a pacific fist
it's only posturing, man
it's a conversion scheme
choose yer battles
cause we don't want none
Image
vets for peace for a helmet with a peace dove and olive branch
strategic air command got an knight's armored fist gripping lightning bolts
and an olive branch :shock:

Image
standing in the operations room at castle air farce base, merced, california
holding my helmet, looking at the SAC shield on the floor, room with dark green thick glass windows, other aircrew filling out their post-flight records,
realising my alienation and th stand i was about to take
gave it up man
(an idea for a memory drawing)
told the student squadron commander, air tankers, i was against the bombing
they sent me to a marine shrink
he said i was not crazy

when i write my death poem
i will proclaim my pacifism
meanwhile i wanna wage war on the hawks who ain't got a clue
wars with words for bulletts
a sneaking slithering play of smoke and mirrors

you have seen plenty
holes in heaven for starters
Image
jesus
i thought you'ld like ti see the decider
amen

made yer day huh? :shock:

these are troubled times
[color=darkcyan]i'm on a survival mission
yo ho ho an a bottle of rum om[/color]

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stilltrucking
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Post by stilltrucking » November 5th, 2007, 8:35 pm

these are troubled times
The Hopi have a saying for times of trouble

"We are the ones we have been waitng for"

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stilltrucking
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Post by stilltrucking » November 6th, 2007, 11:36 am

veteran's day sales
ads starting to appear

thinking about Ft Holibird in january of 1963
got called up for my selective service physical
lost my student defferement

If I had passed and got drafted
I think I could have made a good chaplin's assistant
but my first choice would have been medic.

beautiful day here jim
walking the foo dog
leaves scuttling along in the breeze.

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jimboloco
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Post by jimboloco » November 6th, 2007, 4:02 pm

a beautiful day indeed
got to go to yoga class
you would have made a great chaplain's assistant
i saw a jewish chaplain
at djmap artillery base sometime in 1970-71
he had a black star of david on his lapel
he was sitting on a pile of red dirt and had a red beard
he motioned me over
and asked me "what's your name"
it was as tho i had fallen off my ass
i had an epiphany
i had forgotten that i was me
and suddenly i was thinking
what am i doing in a place like this?
and then
what is a place like this doing here in this place?
i shyley told him my first name, had the epiph,
then split

i think he was jesus
man you just missed him
"We are the ones we have been waitng for"
good one
<> FSB Snuffy - Djmap Jan, 1970
We were the first ones back in to what appeared to be a pristine land - a large field of waving grass, old runway markers and rumors that Vietcong had flown small planes in and out of here for years... Later, this became one of the major resupply transit points for the Cambodian Incursion in June.
... and the beatiful field was a muddy morass, littered with the trash of war and tons and tons of rain-soaked bags of rice, fermenting under the hot sun...
In July, we lost 3 choppers in one day.
Ground attacks and 'mad minutes' at night.
It was a beautiful, but dangerous place - and is now a nature preserve....
http://nodeadlines.com/vietnam/mystory.html
Image
budop artillery base
deserted
august, 1971
last americanos in and out
about ten klicks west of djmap
a real piece of work, ain't it
i mean, this is why i got disillusioned
a bunch of farts spread around this little country
absurd

but the activity continued on westward
wierd
katum and tayninh and phu loi were still active with
army and "enemy" going at it
strange how i flew into three deserted firebases that august, 1971 day
only got the viet cong on the foxmike classified radio at locninh
we were virtually unarmed
2 pistols and one rifle
and when the vc said "lot luck"
man,
i swear
he musta known i was cool



lyndon baines johnson
you were kinda stupid
you shoulda stuck to what you knew
and general westmoreland, what a fuckup
and they said that when general abrams took over, well
the real vietnamization began, like
man, we split

and they waited for the bombing to stop
and waited a while longer,
then walked into the south without a shot
and nguyen cao ky and his trophy wife
split

now we got iraq
what a crock of idiocy
\
glad you are my friend
[color=darkcyan]i'm on a survival mission
yo ho ho an a bottle of rum om[/color]

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stilltrucking
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Post by stilltrucking » November 7th, 2007, 12:12 am

You met jesus and surfermike saw god.

surfermike Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:18 pm

I can't remember some litkicker from palastine, but
I do know when I was in combat in Vietnam, I saw
God more than once. He was usually disguised as
a hellicopter pilot, and he flew low, and dropped
ammo. and water. He'd then return and take away
my wounded and dead friends. I'm sure that was
God, even though he used the named Donald.
http://studioeight.tv/phpbb/viewtopic.p ... 4ed4f215f7
He stopped by a few weeks ago and posted

Good to know he is still kicking.

My eyes are shot tonight
I feel like the bear in the old Pogo comic strip that could write but not read.

I will check out Alan Runfeldt websight when I can read again.

glad you my cyber pal too

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stilltrucking
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Post by stilltrucking » November 8th, 2007, 5:03 am

still working on it
beback later.

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stilltrucking
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Post by stilltrucking » November 8th, 2007, 7:44 am

been up since around midnight
Using my autonomy while I still got it
I have never seen anyone die
except my mother

I can still remember the feel of her throat between my hands

John Edwards got nothing on me jim.


I am thinking about Bolling in 1962
what is a poor nice young jewish doctor to do when the commanding general wants him for his daughter.

Homeboy a bettter man than me
he married his true love
The way the women put her down behind her back
they were not pleased he married a shiksa.
But
"I would walk through hell on sunday"
for that woman. She nursed my mother to a good death.
Like an angel in green.

speaking about talking about behind one's back
I told e-dog you were a peckerhead last night
I deleted it.
but I had meant it in the nicest possible way
"you can't be any better than the worst you recognize"---jitterbug

Picking our battles
too bad there were not more good targets in Afghanistan
We would not have had to invade Iraq.

so heavy going for me to read another soldier's story, but I need too. Read them all.

I will keep trying
as long as I know you got my back.
I will get back to sarge later.
got to get my beauty nap now.

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stilltrucking
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Post by stilltrucking » November 8th, 2007, 11:04 pm

Jim every link below is from his site or from a link off of it.
Except for the Bit about J C Smuts and the battle of Ypres.
I thought it made an interesting juxtoposition to his comment about not being expendable. Is military soul searching an oxymoron?

When I asked how often I could expect to "come under fire", one casually said, "Oh, not more than half the time." (HALF the time!!?? my mind exclaimed!) "Mostly, it's just hard work and discomfort. We don't often fly into hot lz's.. We're not considered expendable, so they try to keep us from getting killed whenever they can..."
http://nodeadlines.com/vietnam/mystory.html
Five hundred thousand expendable men.
Murdering Hundreds Of Thousands Of Men On The Off-Chance

But such a scheme meant the employment of tens of millions of pounds and hundreds of thousands of men, and the ministers were divided whether to give their consent. Lloyd George, Milner, and Bonar Law were against it. Curzon and Balfour were doubtful," Smuts was strongly for the view that the generals had made out a case for at least having a try. Personally, he thought the chances were highly favourable."
To help him make up his mind he jotted down some notes, which ran:
"Western Front remains.

(II) Larger Objective.
(1) Secures Ostend and Zeebrugge and north coast and Navy Saved.
(2) Extracts us . . . in case of French collapse.
(3) Forces Germany to Antwerp-Brussels-Namur line.
Losses at 100,000 per month—less than half a million, whom we can make good.
Very serious to veto operation on which military authorities are agreed."
http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboa ... chap47.htm
The memory of my arrival is Vietnam in mostly blur of disconnected images; the opening scene of the movie "Platoon" was eerily accurate in its depiction of the images and feelings of arriving in Saigon at that time.

http://nodeadlines.com/vietnam/mystory.html
Films like 'Rambo', 'Platoon', 'Hamburger Hill', 'Missing In Action', 'Born on the Fourth of July', 'Uncommon Valour' and 'The Deer Hunter' present an image which allows no sense of the Vietnamese people through.

http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=76
Image

Where he lives now. A little town in NJ

Married for the first time at the age of 53.
About when you got married too I think
I wish him every happiness
God knows he has paid his dues.

Speaking of dues
I don’t know what I can do to help?
He is here in san antone.
Could you give me some advice?
A Soldier in Need of our Moral Support
Jose Perez
Audie Murphy Hospital
Spinal Cord Injury Unit GLB
DO26BEDA
7400 Merton Minter Blvd
San Antonio Tx 78229

Please send a message - a post card, a get-well card, a letter - to this wounded serviceman who lost his physical mobility as a result of injuries sustained while serving with the US Marines in Iraq.

He's not getting the moral support he needs, and we all know how much that sucks. But you can help him with some kinds words of support.

Thanks

http://nodeadlines.com/vietnam/index.html

I don't trust myself to say the right thing.
I think this land is god forsaken these days.
I watch the religious programing and it seems like they are always having wounded soldiers on thanking Jesus for their survival. Sometimes against a back drop that reads "Bring It On." Nothing wrong with thanking Jesus but I feel like those tv evangelists are explioting their suffering. Them God Inc TV preachers the worse chicken hawks of all. Real sky pilots.

Pat Roberston ran for president in 1988 as a combat veteran from the Korean war. His campaign ended when his fellow Marines outed him. Roberston the son of a US Senator, he spent about four hours in Korea before they shipped him out to Japan. As his fellow marines said of him "He was in the rear with the gear."

I been talking about you again behind your back to surfer mike.

I'll find the link later
I got the shakes so bad one time when I was posting to you I could hardly type. I used to think I was a coward as a kid, till a vet told me about adrenalin.

I been thinking about the story surfermike told about the guy who would not take his helmet off because he was so afraid of getting shot. It was about a 110 degrees and the sargent told everybody to take their helmets off before they got heat stroke. Anyway the guy fried his brains started screaming and screaming finally he got shot and the othe soldiers felt relief. soldiers. That is how I remember it. I think mike said he drew a sniper to him. I don't want to put words in surfermikes mouth. I don't think they were that upset about the guy getting shot, my memoryh not what it used to be, mike wrote about that at least four years ago

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the flaming ace
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Post by the flaming ace » November 9th, 2007, 5:26 pm

mercy you told edawg that jimboloco was a peckerhead

that was then and this is now

i don't get the shakes so bad anymore
since i quit drinking everyday

you have compassion

i yam debating about going to veterans' day peace vets memorial service on sunday

i just don't know
so tired

you are right to think about lending support to a wounded vet

i never thought jimboloco was a peckerhead
he was a wounded child
who walked into a stupid wasteland
and saw it clearly
then spent 35 years becoming whole
be at peace
my rambling amigo
[b][color=darkgreen]one more for th road[/color][/b] :mrgreen:

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stilltrucking
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Post by stilltrucking » November 9th, 2007, 8:18 pm

may those who are born after me
never travel such roads of love
hitomaro




compassion is a blessing
but the truth sets you free
if you can't see his peckerhead
maybe it is because he had it up his ass again
surfermike was a peckerhead too
most of my dearest friends are peckerheads
I am the biggest peckerhead I know



I got realy hurt the other day. I needed somebody that I respected who I could punch at.

I am feeling better now.
i appreciate the comeback

I don't drink much ace
I have never had a problem with booze
I bought a half pint of vodka a couple days ago, it lasted me two days. So far this year I have bought maybe
six beers and maybe two pints total
crazy mike could keep a pint of four roses so long it would have a layer of dust on it. I been Lucky that way too.


getting the shakes had nothing to do with drinking ace


It was anger, it was wall pounding rage but I never had a violent thoughts about jimbo
even though he tripped my trigger, my rage never manifested as doing any harm to him[/color]
none of it directed toward jimbo
The Quakers been good to me Ace
I had no violent thoushts at all
just dread


Jimbo been good to me too

that was what made it so bad

that kind of anger against someone you bascally love turns inward
can even become suicidal



I did not choke my mother to death but I had her throat in my hands, it ws the look on her face that saved me and saved her. It could have been suicide by matricide this was after my fathers death the man she turned me against
this was a time when I could not get to sleep with out imagining a rifle pointed under my chin and my finger on the trigger. it was also about the time that I was called up for that selective service physical.



Years later I sat up all night with her talking, her with a bagel and creamcheese and a nice cup of tea. Me with moldy rye sandwhiches and lsd. She clueless that i was tripping. After that night we were best friends again.

Pity about that drug it had such promise, such therapeutic value. Tim Leary's prison project for example. I think there might still be some work going on at Hopkins in baltimore.

I spent the last week of her life by her
death bed. That is when I heard my first death rattle. And I got up and covered the mirror with a sheet when she was gone. SOmekind of family tradition that I don't understand. Why you cover the mrrors after a death in the family. That mirror was directly across from her bed. She looked into just before her death, a quizzical expression and then one that seemed to say, "Oh that's okay" no doubt she was at peace with the mighty smighty god of her mothers before her


jimbo give me the shakes cause of a thread about don imus with another woman, she had accused me of stalking her a few months before
and then she showed on the imus string to trash someone else,





and I tried to back out of it but jimbo kept dragging me back into it.
and I kept saying please jim live me out of this
please jim
but jimbo was in his dr freud mode
got to psycho analyze me for her
kept bringing my name back into the discussion


A lot of soul searching going on here Ace, none of it military

water under the bridge
meanwhile one out of four vets homeless
How about Cindy Sheehan donate the land to a homelss shelter for vet in crawford texas.




a million edits, I hope this makes some sense. I cut and pasted so mcuh it maybe incomprehensible

I will look at it again in the morning

incyberpalship
jt

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