Inaccessible poetry

[Doreen Peri]

I'm all for experimental usage of the language and innovative poetry that stretches the boundaries of what's been done before, but when it reads like total gibberish and makes zero sense, I'm not interested in it.

Why do people write stuff like that? Do they think they're being clever or hip or cool what?

[Artguy]

Sometimes you've got to tear something down before you build something new....What you are saying has been said of many poets, artists of all genres in the past...Who was it that said of Kerouac..."That's not writing, that's typing.."

Here is something by an experimental Canadian poet bp Nichol
http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&d/bpnichol/4hm-use.htm

[Doreen Peri]

looks like art to me... not poetry.

wish i could post an example of what i'm talking about ... it's a poet i tried to read but couldn't read it because it didn't make any sense but i don't want to post it here

maybe i'll find another example

if it's gibberish and i have to sit and work hard on breaking it down to try to make some sense out of it, i won't do it because it's hard work ...

don't get me wrong... i enjoy poetry that has many levels to it... that can mean different things to different people

what i don't like is gibberish

what's the point?

to me, one of the most important skills a writer can have is clarity

[Nazz]

Accessibility is in large part in the eye and mind of the beholder, is it not? I'm sure we could find examples of what maybe 99% of us found inaccessible, but one would think it was at least accessible in the author's mind. Do you have any specific examples? Personally, I tend not to "get" cut-ups, but maybe that's the point?

Funny, I wrote a "cut-up" last night (a self-mocking one, at my own inability to "get" what a "cut-up" is). I actually downloaded 3 or 4 essays from that clearinghouse website Cecil linked a few weeks back and mixed up some sentences/ideas. Yeah, odd.

Yes, clarity (and economy) are important, especially in poetry, but so are farther-reaching themes and such. Were TS Eliot's metaphors and wandering ideas always written with sufficient clarity? That's a subjective call, I guess.

One reason I prefer prose is that I'm freer to expand on ideas and connect them together. Sometimes at the end of a day, something that really struck me causes me to sit down and try and put it into verse, in my own semi-"disciplined" hack style. If I still find it compelling some time later, I'll often "expand" it into prose. Just some thoughts.

[Doreen Peri]

>>can you understand this poetry?

I can't.

Maybe I'm stupid. This poet has a large following! Others seem to get it. I don't get it at all.

.......

Mark, would love to read the cut-up you worked on last night. Can you post it?

[Lightning Rod]

poetry is economy of language
and also word music
of course if you don't understand it, it is worthless to you
different people understand different things
to write a good poem, knowing your audience is a helpful thing

but what do I know? I'm just the guy who put the Cure in ObsCure.

[Nazz]

Hi Doreen. Yeah, I just tacked on my "cut-up" and a few other "vignettes" under my "If it weren't for them" post (yet more tongue-in-cheek nonsense). The "cut-up" is kinda weak, but the other two "vignettes" aren't bad-- though one is always hesitant to admit they went to the liquor store I suppose...

Anyway, as for the poetry you linked, it reminds me a lot of what's on D.O.S. over at the other place-- themes loosely repeating or threading through, but sliced, diced and inverted, converted, etc. The first poem had a sort of filthy/whaling/pirate/gunfight/ vibe going (for as much as I read, at least), kind of all diced up, but in its own quirky rhythm. In fact much of that D.O.S. stuff seems all cut up to me. Btw, the author might laugh at my interpretation, but in a way that's almost the point of such writing, I suppose. Half the fun of D.O.S. is to see all of the various interpretations and reactions in response, though I haven't gone there in a long time.

[Doreen Peri]

ohh ok... I see.

well I don't understand most of the poems posted on AC's DOS forum either.

It's just me I guess.

I do think that good poetry is open to interpretation and layers of meaning are what really make a good poem work and last.

But no meaning at all doesn't work for me. But maybe I"m just a dummy.

[Arcadia]

maybe something like no-meaning is already some kind of meaning, who knows! . When I sense something like that I find it funny most of the time.