Poetry in the '90's

Go ahead. Talk about it.
Post Reply
Yejun
Posts: 229
Joined: December 22nd, 2007, 4:17 pm

Poetry in the '90's

Post by Yejun » June 27th, 2009, 10:00 pm

http://home.earthlink.net/~arthur505/cult1096.html

If only because it matches my own opinion, this is a strong summary of the 90's as I remember them. If you feel this statement is inaccurate or has changes significantly in the last ten years or so, I'd like to hear your take.
Still, certain younger poets show some affinities to the schools of the older generation, and it may be useful to discuss briefly these poetic lines of descent. The Academic poets of the 1950s -- Richard Wilbur, Anthony Hecht, John Hollander -- who produced a rhymed, metrical poetry of wit and linguistic precision, are often seen as the forebears of today's New Formalists -- Dana Gioia, Marilyn Hacker, Brad Leithauser, Charles Martin, Molly Peacock, Mary Beth Salter, Gjertrud Schnackenberg, and Timothy Steele. While there is still no canonical anthology representing this group, the activities and occasional polemics of its members have garnered quite a bit of critical attention and no small amount of controversy. Perhaps because they stand somewhat outside the mainstream of contemporary American poetry, the New Formalists seem to represent an orchestrated conspiracy in the eyes of some hostile critics, even though there is relatively little that connects them beyond a dedication -- itself anything but hidebound -- to writing metrical verse. While they have been accused, in the pages of the AWP Chronicle, the official organ of the Associated Writing Programs, of writing a reactionary type of "yuppie poetry," they actually represent diverse lifestyles and political points of view. They have little in common as far as subject matter is concerned, and critic Robert McPhillips has pointed out that they also do not share much, other than their commitment to rhyme and meter, with the older Academic poets. According to McPhillips, they break with their elders in their preference for popular, demotic forms of culture -- this is, after all, the Woodstock generation -- and, in general, their idiom and cultural frame of reference strike the reader as somewhat less rarified than those of the Academics, who more often than not specialized in what critic Robert Peters once called the "Guggenheim-year-abroad poem" (McPhillips 200-02).
I wish this was a bit more positive as I like a lot of this stuff, but it is I think accurate.
Concretism garnered some public exposure in the news magazines a decade or so ago, but it has remained, for the most part, a literary curiosity. An aesthetic that uses words as visual icons formed into interesting shapes on the page is not likely to elicit much serious critical response, and, indeed, many of the productions of concrete poets are perhaps more suitable for hanging (the poems, that is, not the poets) than reading. E. E. Cummings is the paterfamilias of the Concretists, but Cummings's admirers tend to forgive him his silliest typographical experiments and instead focus on the linguistic brilliance that characterizes his best poems. If the Concretists have any heirs in the present scene, they are the poets of the so-called L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E group (named after a magazine in which the work of many of them first appeared). According to critic Marjorie Perloff, the avant garde poets of 1950s proclaimed that "'Form is never more than an extension of content.' For the Language poet, this aphorism becomes: 'Theory is never more than the extension of practice'" (Holden 46). Indeed, much of the work of these poets seems tailor-made for analysis by the deconstructionists, post-structuralists, and new historicists who have dominated American graduate programs for the last two decades.
Yeah, this stuff is still a curiosity as far as I can tell.
The Confessional poets of the 1960s -- Robert Lowell, Anne Sexton, Sylvia Plath, W.D. Snodgrass -- remain one of the chief influences on the poets of this generation, though the effects of novelty, in an age of "trash-talk" television, have certainly worn off poets' attempts to shock with the explicitness of their personal revelations. When Robert Lowell, scion of Boston gentility and winner of American poetry's most coveted awards, revealed, in Life Studies (1959), that "my mind's not right" in poems detailing family dysfunction, marital woes, alcoholism, mental illness, and psychotherapy, the reading public, perhaps feeling that such candor from a major poet was long overdue, was fascinated. Sylvia Plath's suicide in 1963 caused her posthumous collection Ariel (1965) to be valued all the more highly by women who heard, in its bitterest moments, a cry that could have issued from their own lips. Anne Sexton, the middle-class housewife who went, in less than a decade, from suburbia to the slopes of Parnassus, inspired a whole generation of women who came of age on the cusp of the feminist era. Some twenty years ago, in The Confessional Poets (1973), Robert Phillips described the typical confessional poem, stressing its therapeutic, personal, and alienated qualities. Most younger American poets have at one time or another written poems in this vein. Indeed, the autobiographical narrative/lyric -- sometimes naked, sometimes partially clad -- has become a staple of our poetic diet, especially when it deals with formerly taboo sexual topics. Bruce Weigl's "The Man Who Made Me Love Him" describes an incident of sexual abuse to a child, presumably the poet himself; "Kalaloch" by Carolyn Forché presents, without apology, a graphic first-person account of same-sex lovemaking; Pulitzer Prize-winner Rita Dove's "After Reading Mickey in the Night Kitchen for the Third Time Before Bed" describes how the poet and her daughter compare their sexual organs. These are typical reflections of the extent to which contemporary poets of the mainstream feel free to use their most private moments (and parts) for subject matter. Other poets with ties to the Confessional tradition include Sharon Olds, Alfred Corn, T.R. Hummer, Ira Sadoff, and John Balaban, though it would be safe enough to add that almost every poet writing today has learned from and at times imitated the type of poem popularized by Lowell, Plath, and company.
This is the dominant form for sites such as this one and many, many others.

There's a lot more to talk about here, but I'll start with these three points. :D

mtmynd
Posts: 7752
Joined: August 15th, 2004, 8:54 pm
Location: El Paso

Post by mtmynd » June 27th, 2009, 11:48 pm

Yejun...

I'd enjoy reading any responses you receive from this post.

As for myself, I am unable to participate solely because I have no historical interest in intellectualizing poetry even though I certainly understand the reasoning behind doing so. It is but yet another fascinating topic dealing with writing that deserves to be discussed among those able to contribute in a meaningful way.

Thank you for bringing this forward and I'll eagerly look forward to the responses.
_________________________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now

User avatar
judih
Site Admin
Posts: 13399
Joined: August 17th, 2004, 7:38 am
Location: kibbutz nir oz, israel
Contact:

Post by judih » June 28th, 2009, 12:05 am

this all sounds so very 'majoring in poetry' in university.
The intellectual side of analysis, organization, categorizing is, perhaps, of great interest to some (or many). It rather reminds me of finding a musicologist and a musician in the same room. (which, in fact, i did one fine evening). The conversation wasn't pretty, but mostly because one felt that the other one just didn't get it.

And so, rather like mtmynd, i don't really find myself into it, yet appreciate the fact that the study is alive and well and if i got into it, i would have a body of work to leap into.

As you said about the Concretism group - it is fabulous stuff in that the removal of a 'word' from the linear meaning and flat on the page position makes for sparks of dimension that stimulate the mind. (Well, you didn't exactly say that, but you did say you like the stuff).

User avatar
still.trucking
Posts: 1967
Joined: May 9th, 2009, 12:56 am
Location: Oz or someplace like Kansas

Post by still.trucking » June 28th, 2009, 3:57 am

Sylvia Plath's suicide in 1963 caused her posthumous collection Ariel (1965) to be valued all the more highly by women....
I wonder about that statement. Sounds like he is pimping for the sylvia plath suicide doll industry.
"Natural selection, as it has operated in human history, favors not only the clever but the murderous." Barbara Ehrenreich

Avatar

Free Rice

User avatar
hester_prynne
Posts: 2363
Joined: June 26th, 2006, 12:35 am
Location: Seattle, Washington
Contact:

Post by hester_prynne » June 28th, 2009, 1:35 pm

I have always considered myself a heartist, in that when I write a poem, or sing a song, it comes from something of which I really don't like to analyze too much, more appreciate. Things become flat for me when they are too defined.
I've had several gigs with musicians who were limited in what they could play because they only read music. No chart, no song. Or, I would be forced to sing a song in a key that was not my best key because the musicians on the gig could not play off paper.
When I read articles like these, I become even more devoted to being off paper, undefined, and in the moment. Technical prowess has never satisfied me, in fact it seems to always miss a point that I find hard to express.
There have often been times when I have let people know that I sing/have sung professionally and their reaction is rather one of assuming that I don't look the part so they kind of nod and go oh, really? Then, when they hear me sing or see me perform they have been incredulous, they've said things like , Geez Theda, I had no idea you could sing like that!
They kind of think i'm supposed to technically fit some idea they have of singers/ entertainers.
I think that in itself has always been rather revealing of the limitations that technical analysis has on artistry. It keeps the levels of art down. I of course do not think that is very smart.
H 8)
"I am a victim of society, and, an entertainer"........DW

Yejun
Posts: 229
Joined: December 22nd, 2007, 4:17 pm

Post by Yejun » June 29th, 2009, 9:25 am

Personally, I think I fucked it up. I didn't want to talk about intellectualization, I wanted to talk about what kind of poetry you like.

Don't get me wrong, I still believe there is a place for intellectualization. That's just not what I wanted to do here.

What kind of poetry do you like?

Sorry, my bad.

User avatar
tarbaby
Posts: 330
Joined: December 17th, 2006, 5:25 pm
Location: Oz, or someplace like Kansas, but mostly stilltrucking's vanity

Post by tarbaby » June 29th, 2009, 9:37 am

I like the poetry I like

Some of it I cherish.

I can hardly hear the sound of poetry

I could not tell you what "type" of poetry I like. I could only quote poems.
“Where is that man who has forgotten words that I may have a word with him?”

Yejun
Posts: 229
Joined: December 22nd, 2007, 4:17 pm

Post by Yejun » June 29th, 2009, 9:41 am

Then quote.

User avatar
tarbaby
Posts: 330
Joined: December 17th, 2006, 5:25 pm
Location: Oz, or someplace like Kansas, but mostly stilltrucking's vanity

Post by tarbaby » June 29th, 2009, 10:01 am

Here is a couple I kind of like.
The Geranium
by Theodore Roethke

When I put her out, once, by the garbage pail,
She looked so limp and bedraggled,
So foolish and trusting, like a sick poodle,
Or a wizened aster in late September,
I brought her back in again
For a new routine--
Vitamins, water, and whatever
Sustenance seemed sensible
At the time: she'd lived
So long on gin, bobbie pins, half-smoked cigars, dead beer,
Her shriveled petals falling
On the faded carpet, the stale
Steak grease stuck to her fuzzy leaves.
(Dried-out, she creaked like a tulip.)

The things she endured!--
The dumb dames shrieking half the night
Or the two of us, alone, both seedy,
Me breathing booze at her,
She leaning out of her pot toward the window.

Near the end, she seemed almost to hear me--
And that was scary--
So when that snuffling cretin of a maid
Threw her, pot and all, into the trash-can,
I said nothing.

But I sacked the presumptuous hag the next week,
I was that lonely.
Mystic---S. Plath Hughes


The air is a mill of hooks --
Questions without answer,
Glittering and drunk as flies
Whose kiss stings unbearably
In the fetid wombs of black air under pines in summer.

I remember
The dead smell of sun on wood cabins,
The stiffness of sails, the long salt winding sheets.
Once one has seen God, what is the remedy?
Once one has been seized up

Without a part left over,
Not a toe, not a finger, and used,
Used utterly, in the sun's conflagration, the stains
That lengthen from ancient cathedrals
What is the remedy?

The pill of the Communion tablet,
The walking beside still water? Memory?
Or picking up the bright pieces
Of Christ in the faces of rodents,
The tame flower-nibblers, the ones

Whose hopes are so low they are comfortable --
The humpback in his small, washed cottage
Under the spokes of the clematis.
Is there no great love, only tenderness?
Does the sea

Remember the walker upon it?
Meaning leaks from the molecules.
The chimneys of the city breathe, the window sweats,
The children leap in their cots.
The sun blooms, it is a geranium.

The heart has not stopped.
“Where is that man who has forgotten words that I may have a word with him?”

Yejun
Posts: 229
Joined: December 22nd, 2007, 4:17 pm

Post by Yejun » June 29th, 2009, 10:12 am

Plath and Roethke,

I like you already. :shock:

Now, can you find somebody you think I don't know?


:D

There is a lot of good stuff out there.

User avatar
tarbaby
Posts: 330
Joined: December 17th, 2006, 5:25 pm
Location: Oz, or someplace like Kansas, but mostly stilltrucking's vanity

Post by tarbaby » June 29th, 2009, 10:49 am

do you know keithhamilton, revolution rabbit, lucy, doreen peri, hester prynne, ~K, constantine, clay january, judih, wireman, cecil ...

Come to think of it I can't think of anyone I know that you don"t

Maybe Susan Hahn

The Pity of Punctuation


how about the west Texas Hemingway

"my dearest friends are total strangers
they wish me freedom and self destruction"

that is really a couple of lines from a song
which is kind of like a poem, I guess.
I like Greek lyric poetry too
whatever that is.
“Where is that man who has forgotten words that I may have a word with him?”

Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest