On the Passing of Lucien Carr

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billectric
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On the Passing of Lucien Carr

Post by billectric » January 30th, 2005, 4:22 pm

Lucien Carr.
Sometimes people ask me, “What makes the Beats so special? They were just a bunch of writers."

You know what? Usually I don’t even answer and I don’t care what anyone thinks about what I like and don’t like.

1950's teletype machine Image 1959 Austin Healey


Part of it goes like this: I appreciate Thoreau (a lot!) but I never lived in a cabin. I recognize greatness around the globe: Dickens, Dostoevsky, Basho, Nietzsche, but none of them watched Steve Allen or the Three Stooges on black & white TV, or push-started a car, or used wire transmissions to automatically set type, like reporters for United Press could do starting in 1951. That was the year the first teletypestter was introduced.

Now Lucien Carr was not only a reporter with the United Press. He is also the man who introduced Allen Ginsberg, William S. Burroughs, and Jack Kerouac to each other. He most likely is the one who gave Kerouac the legendary roll of teletype paper on which wrote one non-stop version of On the Road. I know some people say it was a roll of wall paper, but I saw a clip of Jack on the Steve Allen Show, and Jack said it was teletype paper. For all I know, he could have written on all variety of rolled up materials. But again, I don’t care.

I care that when I see that famous picture of Kerouac and Carr, standing side-by-side, athletic Jack in his white T-shirt wavy-haired Lucien with one foot propped up in a jaunty pose, cigarette dangling from his mouth, he reminds me of my cousin Harry King. When I was 12 years old and Harry was 19, he had a little Austin Healey sports car and he showed me how to gap spark plugs using a matchbook cover.

“It’s just the right thickness,” Harry told me. After gapping the plugs, cigarette dangling from his mouth, Harry would pour water in the car battery from a rinsed out glass coke bottle. That’s what you used. “Perfect thing for it,” he said.

Harry was hip. Within a couple of years he was in the Army and stationed in Viet Nam. He came back not quite as free-wheeling and eventually went to work selling plastic parts for cars back before cars had all the plastic in them that they do today. It was a forward looking company.

To anyone who thinks Lucien Carr should have stayed “Beat” and not gone to work for the “establishment” United Press, Cousin Harry would have said, “ Well, maybe he digs the new media like I dig new cars.”

What I want to say to the family and friends of Lucien Carr is, I can relate to your loss, the way I feel the loss of my cousin Harry.
Last edited by billectric on January 30th, 2005, 6:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Before I was enlightened, I chopped wood and carried water. After I became enlightened, I chopped wood and carried water."
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perezoso

Post by perezoso » January 30th, 2005, 5:09 pm

On the Road on Teletype? I always thought it was butcher block. What do you wager that Mr. Carr died with a few untold Beat secrets: wasn't he along with Kerouac suspected/ involved in a murder way back in the 40s or 50s? I do, however, agree that the Beats are more accessible than "classics": these are guys that saw WWII, Hiroshima, Sputnik, AND the 3 stooges: and rode on the back of flatbed trucks into american visions...took some cojones really.

Yet it's rather nauseating to hear say Jammelah rant on about Carr and Casady and the Beats--after she has denounced Kerouac and beat writings numerous times on Litkix. Ya get the sense that Jammy like Asher is probably thinkin' Carr's death might bring some shekels into their coffers.....

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Post by knip » January 30th, 2005, 5:28 pm

yeah, that's it

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Post by bennie » January 30th, 2005, 5:49 pm

Bill, nice post. I really enjoyed reading it.

Lucien Carr was quite pretty wasn't he? Was he the guy who killed that gay guy Kammerer or Krammer or whatever because he wouldn't take no for an answer?

Here's the picture I'm basing the "quite pretty" remark on (he's on the top left:

Image

I'd fuck 'im
well I write music review so I do:
http://www.elevationstation.net

perezoso

Post by perezoso » January 30th, 2005, 6:02 pm

Yeah Bill's post was nice. A bit too nice, like most of his stuff, but appreciated. And there's Ti Jean as the gridiron star...they don't make athletes like that anymore.

But the real beat cat there is not Carr, who was a normal business type guy after the 60s I hear (e.g, square), but Huncke: who I heard speak once. Voice like gravel and pall malls, junkie-lush, polysexual, jailbird-creepo, used to steal coats with Burroughs, lived on the streets most of his life, and then put up in apartment paid for by the Grateful Dead late in life....

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Post by billectric » January 30th, 2005, 6:16 pm

Image[/img]

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Doreen Peri
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Post by Doreen Peri » January 30th, 2005, 6:29 pm

perezoso.... there's no such thing as being "too nice."

Wait a minute.

I take that back.

I've been way too nice way too many times, probably.

It's totally unnecessary for you to slam the people who operate another website on this bulletin board. Please stop.


--------------

Bill - thank you for this post. I didn't even know who Lucien Carr was.

Oh well.

There's a lot of things I don't know.

Always good to learn a few things.

perezoso

Post by perezoso » January 30th, 2005, 6:56 pm

Claiming that Asher and his gals are opportunists or they know nothing about beat lit. ( except how to market it) is not a "slam", it's a judgment made after a few years of seeing the garbage they put up.

If you wanted to run a democratic site perhaps you should allow a group editorial/moderator policy, or not moderate.

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Doreen Peri
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Post by Doreen Peri » January 30th, 2005, 7:01 pm

Calling them names is slamming.

Calling knip names is slamming.

Calling me names is slamming.

I don't want to have a govt here.

I don't want rules and regulations.

There is ONE rule. That rule is respect.

Critique can be done respectfully.

I don't want people to have to make subjective decisions about posts.

I want to see people enjoying talking about the arts.

You're welcome to your opinion about any sites on the internet, including this one.

But you are not welcome to post insults.

I don't have time to tell you every time.

If you can't tell the difference between name-calling insults and honest critique, then I will simply tell the difference for you and move the posts into the Fireplace/Dumpster. That way, you will be able to peruse them whenever you want and compare them to the posts which aren't moved. Perhaps you'll be able to discern the difference eventually.

Peace.

perezoso

Post by perezoso » January 30th, 2005, 7:08 pm

I said Asher and his gals were opportunists, not beats, nor scholars. Not only opportunists but shallow opportunists: jamelah's little essay prompt after Carrs's death is an apt demonstration of that. But then most online writing people are shallow opportunists.

Requiring people to respect each other is a form of control and indeed censorship.

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Doreen Peri
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Post by Doreen Peri » January 30th, 2005, 7:20 pm

No. Requiring people to respect each other in my home is not censorship. It is self-respect and respect for those who are visiting my home or who occupy it.

Yes. Requiring people to respect each other in my home IS control. It's control over my home and my life.

I don't offer my hospitality to people who don't respect me or my guests. And I don't invite people to my home who continually make rude, belittling comments about other people.

I just don't like that kind of thing. It isn't comfortable for me and I find it to be unacceptable social behavior.

Recently, I went outside of an office where I was working and a co-worker was smoking a cigarette and talking behind another co-workers back. She called him various names. For instance, she said he was a lazy deadbeat who was overpaid who never had a fresh idea in his life. Did she have the right to criticize him like that behind his back? Even if he were there, that type of name-calling is unacceptable in my life.

I looked at her and stamped my cigarette out after only two puffs and said, "I wonder what you say about me behind MY back! Sorry, I'm not interested in hearing this bullshit."

I turned and left to go back inside the building.

I will tell anybody and everybody whenever I want to, no matter where I am, no matter who I'm with, that their behavior doesn't fit in my life if they are rude, belittling, and insulting.

perezoso

Post by perezoso » January 30th, 2005, 7:28 pm

This isn't your home, it's the internet. I don't work for you; nor do I want anything from you. I suspect I have more writing & publishing cred. than you and L-rod. I also post at quite a few sites. Any person can open up phpbb or a blog ( in fact I have)

In fact you are profitting or taking advantage of LitKix' recent change of format: if Asher and Co were decent and ethical people they would have left the site open for free, unmoderated communication--or established a better moderating policy. There may be grounds for some moderating, but moderating/deleting negative posts simply because they are negative is not moderation, it's censorship.

you're not in charge, Doe.

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Post by Doreen Peri » January 30th, 2005, 7:46 pm

Wrong. Studio Eight is my home. I created it. Yes, I used phpbb software which is free for anyone to use. But this is my home. Yes, it's on the internet and it's a public board but I have control over the content and visitors because I will not publish just anything.

This site has absolutely nothing to do with Litkicks. I believe it is true, however, that the member list has grown much faster than it would have if Litkicks had not removed their message boards. This is not me taking advantage of anything. It's just what happened, that's all. I've been planning this site for a long time and announced it all over the litkicks boards for a good six months or longer, prior to anybody knowing they were going to close their boards. *shrug*

We made a lot of friends at Litkicks and many of the people wanted a place to post and so when we opened our boards, they came here. So what?

Studio Eight has many members who have never even heard of Litkicks.

I don't know about LR's credits but if you have any publishing credits at all, you have more than I do. I've been published in a few small literary magazines and on the internet. That's it. Except my 3 self-published poetry collections which I print off my desktop. You win!

I can move or delete any posts I want. And you can call it censorship if you want, too. Go ahead. That doesn't effect me in the least.

I AM in charge of my own site.

It's my website. So there! :P Getchyerself one if you want it operated differently.

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Post by Dave The Dov » January 31st, 2005, 5:00 pm

Hey perezoso WHY don't you go to the F/D board and post your opinon about what you have to say about what goes on over at "that" website. Rather then try and drag an opinon out whom ever on this board. That way you're not pissing people off by stomping all over them with your comments.
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Last edited by Dave The Dov on March 8th, 2009, 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

perezoso

Post by perezoso » January 31st, 2005, 7:28 pm

Hey davey the deep

why don't u mind yr own bidness

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