“Devil” is a doctrinal wedge, a policy crutch of sorts. Quickest way to win a dogma war—convince people how devil-like your opposition is. Or God-less. Same thing with “Antichrist.” The history of Christianity—essentially that of the Catholic Church-- is filled with such maneuverings, re: splinter factions in particular. Doctrine and chain of command was paramount, and anyone opposed was a candidate for “Antichrist.” Martin Luther was reportedly an Antichrist. Actually he called the Pope Antichrist, but you get the idea. We had a spate of Antichrists running around circa 1000 AD. We go a little nuts about our millennia.
Then the whole Rapture movement took off in the 1970s, in the shadow of two horrific World Wars, basically two suicide attempts by the species, no doubt gearing up for the dreaded Y-2-K. A thriving End Times industry sprang up, and the Antichrist popped up everywhere. For a while it was Kissinger. Good choice. We are doomed. No use to think we can save ourselves from wreckage of our own proliferation. Yeah? Word of advice for End Timers: if your roof needs replacing, do it. Jesus has a sketchy record saving the planet from dry rot. You see the advantage here? Removal of responsibility. If things are hopelessly fucked and you punched your ticket to heaven, then what’s the point? Demonize away!
“Devil” can also be used to poetic effect, such as when Bob Marley sang, “if you get down and you quarrel every day, you’re saying prayers to the devils I say.” But it’s tricky because what if it’s a moral quarrel? What if darkness would annihilate greater darkness? The mountains of propaganda from both sides of the Cold War weren’t necessarily “wrong” (the Communists were worse, those devils), but it all failed to look at a larger picture. Or maybe the picture was too large, out of scale with its human inhabitants.
The devil is dead serious satire, big on empire. When I fought religion it was the devil. When Deep Purple hit those monster chords it was the devil. When my guitar gently wept it was the devil on acid rain. He fucks with things, rots the fabric, sets the canons, asks too many questions or too few, does too many drugs or not enough, throws down too many subversive riffs. Devil dogs crawl out of rocks and rills, come to befoul your pristine tenets, ruin your empire like choking brown dust blowing in from the barren prairie, dust devils on desolate afterthoughts of geology, to erode your beaches, scorch your crops, melt your ice caps. The devil belches smokestacks, manufactures the specious things you crave to keep wheels turning, stacks belching, tickers ticking, landfills filling. Or perhaps the devil is some useless Commie environmentalist throwing a wrench in the gears. Could go either way. See how that works?
devil dogs
devil dogs
Last edited by mnaz on November 16th, 2009, 2:18 pm, edited 4 times in total.
It's been my theory since I was a small child that belief in an entity gives it power, even if only in your own "world." Something like The Velveteen Rabbit and love making toys real, though I never read that book until I was an adult. To that end, I've never believed in the devil. I don't believe there is a hell. I think everyone goes to "heaven" (read: better place) when they die, which is why I've never supported capital punishment. Keep'em alive as long as possible; let'em suffer; life is much worse than death for the guilty.
As an adult my understanding is much more refined. Good and evil, god and devil, christ and antichrist, are simply aspects of mind. They're relative judgements, which is why I think the teacher said don't judge or you will be judged. It's a no-win situation. The only way out of that rat race is to disengage, refuse to play - don't judge. My wife, as a mother, gets really pissed when there's a news story about these parents who let their kids die because they practice faith healing. As a father, I agree with her to a degree, but I also tell her that those people need to have the freedom to practice their own way of life so that we can have the freedom to practice ours. And then I tell her that they may have a bit of a rude awakening when they die. It may be that God says to them, "Did you not think I made medical science possible to save your child? Did you think you could do my thinking for me?" Or words to that effect. But I could just as well be wrong as they could be right.
As for the end of the world, numerology comes into play. Witness the current fervor in non-Christian circles surrounding 12/12/2012. These are the people who think the Christians are backwards idiots, yet they're getting all apocalyptic about what's merely an arbitrary number chosen by a pope long ago. The Mayans, real, current, modern Mayans, aren't getting ready for the world to end. They think the whole thing's kind of ridiculous, and they're a little pissed that we're ripping off their belief system in such a dumbass way.
You are correct, sir. The devil is a crutch. Demonization is a tired old strategy practiced by people on all sides of all fences. It's really kind of lame and weak, in my opinion. I support you in your endeavor to step out, to refuse to be engaged. It's really the only sane thing to do, as I see it.
Peace,
Barry
PS: And I like your use of the term "dogma war." Back in '97, '98, '99 I used to get into it in the AOL chatrooms. "GOD is a MYTH" and "Evolution is Fact" were a couple that were always going on. Dogma wars was exactly the term I used to use to describe it. I even wrote a poem about my experiences there, but it's long gone, died with the old computer and no back-up disk. Fond memories of that term, "dogma wars." Thanks for reminding me.
As an adult my understanding is much more refined. Good and evil, god and devil, christ and antichrist, are simply aspects of mind. They're relative judgements, which is why I think the teacher said don't judge or you will be judged. It's a no-win situation. The only way out of that rat race is to disengage, refuse to play - don't judge. My wife, as a mother, gets really pissed when there's a news story about these parents who let their kids die because they practice faith healing. As a father, I agree with her to a degree, but I also tell her that those people need to have the freedom to practice their own way of life so that we can have the freedom to practice ours. And then I tell her that they may have a bit of a rude awakening when they die. It may be that God says to them, "Did you not think I made medical science possible to save your child? Did you think you could do my thinking for me?" Or words to that effect. But I could just as well be wrong as they could be right.
As for the end of the world, numerology comes into play. Witness the current fervor in non-Christian circles surrounding 12/12/2012. These are the people who think the Christians are backwards idiots, yet they're getting all apocalyptic about what's merely an arbitrary number chosen by a pope long ago. The Mayans, real, current, modern Mayans, aren't getting ready for the world to end. They think the whole thing's kind of ridiculous, and they're a little pissed that we're ripping off their belief system in such a dumbass way.
You are correct, sir. The devil is a crutch. Demonization is a tired old strategy practiced by people on all sides of all fences. It's really kind of lame and weak, in my opinion. I support you in your endeavor to step out, to refuse to be engaged. It's really the only sane thing to do, as I see it.
Peace,
Barry
PS: And I like your use of the term "dogma war." Back in '97, '98, '99 I used to get into it in the AOL chatrooms. "GOD is a MYTH" and "Evolution is Fact" were a couple that were always going on. Dogma wars was exactly the term I used to use to describe it. I even wrote a poem about my experiences there, but it's long gone, died with the old computer and no back-up disk. Fond memories of that term, "dogma wars." Thanks for reminding me.
thanks Barry. I like your take on things. Good comments. I appreciate it. I tweaked and added to this one. I had a good "contemplation session" last weekend with a drink or two, wherein I thought of a few concepts I'd like to write about-- even assigned "chapter titles" to them if you can believe that... Thanks again.
some rough working titles---- Get Away....Go Back....The Fall....The Pyramids....The God Wars....Big Dog Woofer Dub....Sterile gleam of Airports....Motel Checklist....Scrounging Ore....Mirage....Canyons....Badlands....Devil Dogs....Age of Classics....The Jesus Chapter....The God Particle....The Beige Hole....We do Space...
Already written bits and pieces of each title, need to fill in more blanks, do more research, let the mind wander...
Already written bits and pieces of each title, need to fill in more blanks, do more research, let the mind wander...
Didn't get that far yet. Started with a "motel" scenario; maybe I could use that somehow..
I wonder how much of a backlash will ever develop against these somewhat extreme doctrines. Seems like they've become more "mainstream" in my lifetime. I could get myself in trouble by tying Israel's government into the equation and "discussion" (critically). Israel is quite important to the End Times faithful (Islam and Christianity). It's kind of a mess. Shouldn't go too far, though. Stick with the larger questions, asked in my wacky way of course!
I wonder how much of a backlash will ever develop against these somewhat extreme doctrines. Seems like they've become more "mainstream" in my lifetime. I could get myself in trouble by tying Israel's government into the equation and "discussion" (critically). Israel is quite important to the End Times faithful (Islam and Christianity). It's kind of a mess. Shouldn't go too far, though. Stick with the larger questions, asked in my wacky way of course!
good read, Mark. gave me some thoughts on the fundamentalists who actually buy into the crap delivered to them before the plate is passed.
one thing for sure, there's a lot of fear going on in this country and it's just not necessary but inevitable seeing that other's fears are generating fears in those not knowing what the others are up to. i think it adds up to loss of trust, period. when the trust is missing so goes damn near everything else with it. whose trust is for sale this week in the media..?
fortunately there seems to be some sanity tossed in the mix to keep things on a fairly even keel. that 'yin/yang thang' never fails to do it's act. without it, we'd all be doomed.
one thing for sure, there's a lot of fear going on in this country and it's just not necessary but inevitable seeing that other's fears are generating fears in those not knowing what the others are up to. i think it adds up to loss of trust, period. when the trust is missing so goes damn near everything else with it. whose trust is for sale this week in the media..?
fortunately there seems to be some sanity tossed in the mix to keep things on a fairly even keel. that 'yin/yang thang' never fails to do it's act. without it, we'd all be doomed.
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Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now
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Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now
Unless Christ really is coming back to "save us," these belief systems need to be reigned in somehow by the whole of humanity, and not allowed to creep too far into into world politics, especially affairs of the "Holy Land," where said beliefs tend to foster or support hardline policies not open to any negotiation whatsoever. I know the Arab-Israeli conflict is driven by numerous complex issues, but a hardline "Zionist" angle will always remain a dangerous mindset. And of course, it's always tricky to comment "poetically" on these things without sounding like a preacher myself!
This is sooo true. And the thing that ticks me off the most is that my youngest son, 13, is actually afraid the world is really going to end in 2012. He's afraid he won't get to grow up. And he's apparently not alone. I ran across a news strory on the net awhile back by some psychologist woman or something, and she was saying this is like an epidemic across the country - all kinds of kids afraid they won't get to grow up. It just urks me. As a child of the Cold War, at one time virtually certain I would never get to grow up myself, I feel some identification with these kids. It's wrong to breed fear in them this way, for whatever reason. And as a parent, when it's being done to my son, intentional or not, it really hits me where I live.one thing for sure, there's a lot of fear going on in this country and it's just not necessary but inevitable seeing that other's fears are generating fears in those not knowing what the others are up to.
Peace,
Barry
I agree, Nazz. It's a sort of damned if you do-damned if you don't scenario. If you speak out for Israel, you're damned by one group. If you speak against, you're damned by the other. Here's my take...I think it's cool that Israel exists. I think it's great that a people dispersed all over Eurasia and the world a thousand years ago as refugees from a terrible war in their land got to go back and remake a home for themselves. I wish we (humanity) could do the same for Native Americans or, I don't know, Vietamese boat people or something. Maybe in the future we will. I wish Israel wasn't run by such a bunch of hard-line paranoids but, given the variety of forces arrayed against them, it's perhaps understandable. But religious reasons? Israel should exist because it's the Holy Land and they're God's chosen people, they're special in other words? Nah, I don't see it that way. It's good they got to remake their country. It sucks the Palestinians (also their country) have been so mistreated in the deal. Israel is a democracy though. Very soon the Palestinians will be a majority. Unfortuantely they'll most likely turn the tables and simply begin to mistreat the Hebrew minority. Yin/yang, you know? It comes and it goes, not always for the good.Unless Christ really is coming back to "save us," these belief systems need to be reigned in somehow by the whole of humanity, and not allowed to creep too far into into world politics, especially affairs of the "Holy Land," where said beliefs tend to foster or support hardline policies not open to any negotiation whatsoever. I know the Arab-Israeli conflict is driven by numerous complex issues, but a hardline "Zionist" angle will always remain a dangerous mindset. And of course, it's always tricky to comment "poetically" on these things without sounding like a preacher myself!
Peace,
Barry
One could really get lost in all this stuff. I wonder if anyone's tried to "connect all the dots"-- how these belief systems are bound to have an effect on modern geopolitics, in terms of "democratic" regimes drifting closer to fascist leanings, policies out of balance toward corporate greed, the ongoing, unyielding powder-keg situation(s) in the Middle East exacerbated by ultra-hardline agendas, the US-Israel alliance-- ostensibly to support "the only democracy in the region," but with suspicious "End Times" religious undercurrents and overtones as well. Just this week Israel announced plans for 900 new settlements on disputed land. Makes you wonder what they're really about.
I googled a theological Last Days discussion by some fundamentalist preacher, and sure enough it brought back unpleasant memories of church. Israel is of course central to The End-- must control Jerusalem, and then makes a deal with Antichrist, and Antichrist breaks the deal and invades, and all hell on earth-- the entire earth-- breaks loose, the "great tribulation." Horrible war and plagues are tied to the "seven seals" and all that stuff in Revelation. Freaky stuff. The preacher states over and over matter-of-factly that all this tribulation and misery is an absolute, unavoidable certainty, and traces it back to prophecies in Jeremiah and Isaiah, using a bizarre "weeks of years" numerology system. It never used to freak me out as much when I thought it was confined solely to the "fringes"-- but then Bush became President...
Yeah, I wonder if anyone's written a fairly complete work connecting all these dots...
I googled a theological Last Days discussion by some fundamentalist preacher, and sure enough it brought back unpleasant memories of church. Israel is of course central to The End-- must control Jerusalem, and then makes a deal with Antichrist, and Antichrist breaks the deal and invades, and all hell on earth-- the entire earth-- breaks loose, the "great tribulation." Horrible war and plagues are tied to the "seven seals" and all that stuff in Revelation. Freaky stuff. The preacher states over and over matter-of-factly that all this tribulation and misery is an absolute, unavoidable certainty, and traces it back to prophecies in Jeremiah and Isaiah, using a bizarre "weeks of years" numerology system. It never used to freak me out as much when I thought it was confined solely to the "fringes"-- but then Bush became President...
Yeah, I wonder if anyone's written a fairly complete work connecting all these dots...
After reading this last post of yours, Mark, the word "impatient" rang it's bell. The End Times, Armageddon, MidEast violence over Shia and Sunni, Jewish settlements, Book of Revelations... all this seems to be accelerating as if the Jews, Christians and Muslims are eager to see some sort of mass extinction of their foes and anyone else who doesn't agree. There seems to be an urgency... a 'hurry-up and get it over with' attitude that's washing over the whole situation.
And meanwhile, back in China... they are seeing an unprecedented growth because the were patient and calculating... taking it easy until look at them now. They're probably going to be the super power of this century if they keep going. They have their hands in nations worldwide ... at least those that have something to offer.
Maybe they will be swept up in all this crazy impatients to see the end of the world, but I see them as more cool and calculated, watching things carefully, learning from many sources beyond their own. They could well be the next super power as the u.s. scratches it's head and wonders where Jesus is...
And meanwhile, back in China... they are seeing an unprecedented growth because the were patient and calculating... taking it easy until look at them now. They're probably going to be the super power of this century if they keep going. They have their hands in nations worldwide ... at least those that have something to offer.
Maybe they will be swept up in all this crazy impatients to see the end of the world, but I see them as more cool and calculated, watching things carefully, learning from many sources beyond their own. They could well be the next super power as the u.s. scratches it's head and wonders where Jesus is...
_________________________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now
Indeed. And an impatience to see heaven as well, be it the dramatic whisking away of believers (and martyrs) to the sky, or the fabled 'heaven on earth' that Jesus will come back and magically restore. Yes. Impatience. Slavery to doctrines and 'prophecy.' The self-fulfilling "End."mtmynd wrote:... the word "impatient" rang it's bell... all this seems to be accelerating as if the Jews, Christians and Muslims are eager to see some sort of mass extinction of their foes... a 'hurry-up and get it over with' attitude...
As far as the ongoing Israeli settlements (and what appears to be a slow, steady takeover attempt of Jerusalem), the powerful hardcore God Lobby in this country basically forbids ANY criticism of Israel's government, preaching these End Times disaster doctrines in their burgeoning suburban megachurches and on TV. Weeks after "9/11," I was flipping channels at a motel and I heard a preacher say, "God forbids Israel to negotiate with the Palestinians regarding land," period. The "Zionist" angle. Real helpful, isn't it? Connecting the dots...
Heh. That's about how I see it. India too. The US has done a lot of great things and still has a lot to offer, but it seems a little full of itself, somewhat disingenuine in its pretensions of 'manifest destiny' and being the world's 'moral beacon.' At times. And it's a little too bogged down in its own prejudices and fearful superstitions and blind embrace of raw "capitalism" as the pinnacle of existence, choking on its own greed. At times. Man, Obama got in some serious trouble when he tried to hint at some of these things during the campaign!!They could well be the next super power as the u.s. scratches it's head and wonders where Jesus is...
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hester_prynne
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Finally got to read this.
Fantastic script on the devil.
Got me thinking.
I could sense a devil dog in this very room as I read it.
Chilling.
Sometimes I wonder if I ever really believed; more just went along with it to be polite, avoid trouble.
Can't wait to get a signed copy of your book....
I'll read it on the bus so other people will see it.
You really write good man.
H
Fantastic script on the devil.
Got me thinking.
I could sense a devil dog in this very room as I read it.
Chilling.
Sometimes I wonder if I ever really believed; more just went along with it to be polite, avoid trouble.
Can't wait to get a signed copy of your book....
I'll read it on the bus so other people will see it.
You really write good man.
H
"I am a victim of society, and, an entertainer"........DW
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