"End Times" (God wars, continued)

[mnaz]

--- (continued):

If it were simply the Church you might make inquiry, but of course The Answer is unquestionable. Imagine the first eyes to wander and witness the mythic landmarks, long before anyone thought to make a Western sort of living. Imagine the first nineteenth century cowhand on the rolling red sea of soil, blackbrush and juniper in the margins, a monotony of peace. The herd trudges and groans into mystic overflow until it drops away. His deep canyon is instantly “all there,” no slow revelation; he is a speck on a shore of mineral eons, a continuum. What happened here? He could hike below the rim, glimpse unimaginable epochs we flit over and ignore, the visionary inner eye. More likely he says a prayer and turns back or tries to find a way around. Vertical travel is tricky on a plane. Things in the sky ordain and foretell, while the earth is mere dirt, or worse. Why go down when you could go up? Religion goes back millennia, as does astronomy, while geology reaches back a few hundred years, with big breakthroughs only in the last sixty.

Earth insight flickered in the seventeenth century, but God owned the law. Question the earth’s age and goons came for you. The answer is 6,000 years, declared Pope Corleone. When De Maillet and others wrote of billions, the Church declined to burn their papers, but edited decimals to the left. Such heavy-handed time fear infuriated Lamarck and Darwin, but the scripture mob held firm. Fossils? Extinctions? Blasphemy! Fossils were planted by Satan to confuse. Tiny crinoids in Paleozoic ooze became archfiends, and strange men who poked at rocks chiseled away at the Bible itself. Heretics! Geology persevered and eventually crept (unedited) into textbooks, though it seems certain most doctrines will never fully accept rock science. Scriptural belligerence toward science and techno manifests in many other fields too (weapons perhaps excepted), but it is the specter of holy war itself that is most chilling.

But we don’t do holy war. Well, consider that in 2003 United States President George W. Bush made a phone call to French President Jacques Chirac, in a last-ditch attempt to drum up support for a military invasion of Iraq. When details of the call surfaced later, a minor stir occurred, quickly forgotten. Perhaps Bush steeled himself for this call with a pre-summit tumbler of bourbon, as some have suggested. He said: “Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East. Biblical prophecies are being fulfilled. This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people’s enemies before a New Age Begins.” Verbatim. As Chirac recounted in a later interview. You’re joking, right? Damn French cowards. Russians and Germans too. Who wouldn’t crank it up for a deal like that? The Bible is a masterwork—poetry, storytelling and wisdom. Could use a better translator maybe. Don’t fear the prophets boys. Ezekiel went out for a toke or something and saw a dust devil, maybe the Lord in a whirlwind. Too quiet in the desert. You hear things, like fossils screaming, or fortunes of kingdoms on a bleak, dry breath. “Tap tap, you there? Can you mobilize the Army against Gog? I’d like that. Do it for me. And quickly now, it’s getting hot over there; we could be home soon.”

Gog? Magog? Comes from Ezekiel 38—something about an “attack from the north,” in which God (yes, God) personally intervenes, with earthquakes and all the usual (postmodern) Old Testament nihilism. Some scholars read the text as mythological, but preachers read it as the literal end. Time to start knocking off the seven seals. The killing must get much worse, but fear not, we’ll be rescued (from ourselves). A fatalistic bunch. Google it. Sample the rhetoric—“The destruction of Syria is a clearly foretold event. America will let Israel handle the task. Damascus will be a ruinous heap (per Isaiah 17:1). Iran (Persia) is a huge player among ‘King of the South’ nations. American forces will quickly bring Iran under Western control. When Iran is taken Islamic resistance will escalate in 2006-07. America, in the land of Babylon, steps undeniably onto the prophetic stage.”—forty pages in this manifesto, one of many similar works. The author relents at the end—“the hideous deception of killing in God’s name is in full swing. Radical Islam believed this deception for centuries. Christianity has also embraced this insanity, with a lofty view that America is beyond reproach.” And that, coming from a zealot. Deception for all. Everyone must get stoned. Why? No consensus yet, but it seems to boil down to Jerusalem. Who gets it? Are we getting this?

If you insist on your Almighty, what is the eschatology? Do we escalate things and wait for God? Or does God wait for us? The End Times are taught in our neighborhood churches. They attained the White House. Are these “mainstream” beliefs? And if not, why aren't they more openly rejected? A reasonable question. Gog? Magog? Google it. In Islamic tradition Dhul Qarnayn roamed the world until he found a tribe threatened by Gog Magog, purveyors of destructive corruption, and he built a great wall to hold back hostile northern nations—similar to the tale of Alexander the Great’s wall. Some scholars think Gog Magog were the Mongols, who threatened Muslim power in the Middle Ages. In Goth lore, Ezekiel’s prophecy is considered fulfilled with the Swedes. The Swedes? In British tradition Gog and Magog are depicted as giants in the Lord Mayor’s Show every year, an event dating back to Henry V. They are London’s guardians, a myth derived from the myth of Roman Emperor Diocletian and his thirty-three wicked daughters. In Irish tradition Magog is ancestor to the Irish, as well as numerous other races across Europe and Asia, as told in “Lebor Gabala Erenn.” And when Napoleon invaded Russia, Chassidic rabbis called it the “Gog Magog War,” a sign of the Messiah’s return.

Yes. Waiting on a Messiah, raising some hell. Seems to be the way. Why should you care if they choose to butcher each other, threaten the earth right up to the final bell? You care, but you reach a fork where you state your peace and move on. Howl it to heaven’s black wasteland and icy glitter, into God’s star-spangled ear if you must, the swinish politics and suicide, but get back in the truck and go on, further into a dust-borne tide. Go deeper. As most things go, in childish footsteps of a fool, getting it out is enough—from unseen reaches, recesses and shade canyons, surreal as breath. It’s out of your hands, in the hands of God (all of them). Nothing that hasn’t been said before on the naked rock. Yes old man, you made a good point now and then with your theory and complaining, but you had to yield the floor. To rock and sky. Simmering roots and reverb. Mostly it was irony, the subversion. Impossible to forget that heady stretch of blaze. Moving on now. Another town. Another realm of rock rhythms.

[justwalt]

So, what did you say? I've read both
parts here, and love it all. I find it
a bit difficult to respond to this,
(as a whole), but I want to anyway.

If it makes any difference, my god
hasen't spoken to me since...ever.
But I cannot not believe. Instead,
it does appear that some other
messengers have been filling in for
him in his silence.

I've had a series of potentially fatal
occurences befall me in the past year,
and I'm starting to get pissed.

I think these "god wars" don't apply
here anymore. I think they've played
their role, when necessary, but also
that they aren't needed today. Sad to
say, that some folks won't give it up.

Oh, I don't follow any religion... I'm
not one of these or those. I find truth
in many religions... and lies too. My
beef is not with anyone, except what I
call god itself... which must include
me, and everything else. I don't think
we are, or ever were seperate from
"the god".

Infact, I feel that we are here as a
means, to figure out god's own problem.

As for the end, or my end, I have no worries,
as long as I am not hurting any other person...
or soul.

walt

[mnaz]

Hi Walt. I've combined a lot of writings I've done in the last few years, so maybe I threw in too much here. Together with my other "God Wars" rant, I basically covered the following ground:

1. The general media/pundit sensationalization of the Sept. 11th attacks as an all-encompassing, full-blown, "apocalyptic Clash of Civilizations," i.e. "The West (or Christianity) Vs. Islam," and the constant beating of war drums associated. (first segment). See of course FOX News (and CNN in the early days). And see also folks like the head of Blackwater in Iraq (waging a "crusade," as he describes it).

2. The considerable role of the (increasingly politicized) fundamentalist "evangelical" Christian church in getting Bush elected President (twice), and the (evidently dangerous) effects of these beliefs-- in particular End Times doctrine-- on President Bush's decision-making, and perhaps government in general. I personally don't think this effect has been discussed enough. The few forums I've read on the subject basically blasted Bush as some sort of fringe loonie in his mission from God, but I'm somewhat less convinced the phenomenon is entirely "fringe," having been raised in that "evangelical" environment myself. (in this segment)

3. I threw in a bit about early geologic science's "oppression" by the church, since I often write about rocks and tramping through the desert-- so yeah, "rocks and God." (this segment)

4. Threw in a little bit about Huxley and rockets and jets. (last segment)

5. Threw in something about the third Century Christian "desert fathers" in Egypt, and "getting to non-zero sum" (mutually beneficial interdependence). (last segment)

6. And flowing sporadically through, rumbling roots dub in the desert. As I've dabbled in before. (both segments). It's really what inspired this write in the first place-- that sense of irony and even defiance I felt as I got lost in the desert, powered by dubbed out Jah music at times, as those other Gods/religions were being hyped into their "war." Maybe there should be more of this vibe and less of "Magog" stuff. anyway...

So yeah, that's a lot to throw in and get through.

And as for separateness from "the god," I like your take. I inquired of the reader-- even if one insists on the Almighty above, how do you take your eschatology? We forever wait for God to intervene ? Or God waits for us to address our own problems and wrongs?

Thanks Walt, appreciate.

[justwalt]

well... it's a great write, no matter if it initiates a sort of neural gridlock. These things need to be expressed. All of these events, from then to now, need to be questioned thoroughly. But extracting any truth from them leaves one mostly empty handed. And that's the way "they" want it, or so it seems to me.

But hopefully, as a few more centuries pass, we might learn to cut the bullshit and just be real. Ha, one of my old phrases comes to mind..."be real or walk away". Most used when I was a serious drinker many, many moons ago.

On the point of satan, I say he or it doesn't exist. Even the jewish folk reject the thought. Monotheism is monotheism, isn't it? Anyway, I have several close friends who follow the various beliefs of judaism. I think much of their intricacies are a waste of time, but I am very intrigued with what kabbalism offers.

I'm curious to seen how long it takes for the scientists to actually prove the existence of god. I think that could cause a war. These times are crazy. If there is an end to it all, I'd like to still be around to see it. Tomorrow wouldn't be soon enough.

w

[mnaz]

These times are crazy. If there is an end to it all, I'd like to still be around to see it. Tomorrow wouldn't be soon enough.

Let's not rush it. The other obvious theme to this write is the tendency for disastrous types of prophecy to become self-fulfilling. (Not necessarily what you're saying here-- just forgot to mention it). Thanks for your thoughtful reading, Walt. And I'm inspired by that thread on AC about "save the planet" type techno innovation. Good stuff.

[justwalt]

Tomorrow wouldn't be soon enough.

Ya know, after this morning's earthquakes in Chile, I feel kinda bad.
Beware of that for which you wish... I know. But it just might be
what I do mean, to speak the truth.

For 20-some years I have felt the solemn pleasure that is rooted
within the phrase... today is a good day to die. I know myself the
best, but with that kind of personal comfort, comes a shadowy sense
of futility. It's yet another fence to perch myself upon, I suppose. On
the one side is the desire to carry on, progress to some
unanswered role. And the other, is... (really hard to find words for)...
something like my soul wanting out of this body. But I could never
initiate that act.

I keep the premise that things happen for a reason, even if a reason never becomes apparent. So, I really have no choice but to carry on here, until that good day comes. Something of me seems to be missing, yet I believe all answers are within oneself.

I guess I just psychoanalyzed a bit of myself. I feel better now.

thankx
w

[stilltrucking]

I don't know nothing about what followed your original post.
But the first post on this thread was a magic carpet ride for me.

I was swept up in your vison.

Enjoyed the ride
very much.

Got a link to that save the planet thread on AC?
I could use some good news.

[mnaz]

Thanks Walt. If nothing else it may "stir some thought." Then again, maybe this is all kind of obvious to most people. (I had to add that into the narrative).

Truck-- I don't know nothing about the last part of this ride either. I decided to include Bush's ravings to Chirac (from '03), so I basically just tried to track down what he was raving about.

Glad you enjoyed the ride. I have to leave the computer now. Maybe I can track the link later on. Thanks again.

[justwalt]

http://www.arcanumcafe.com/community/sh ... hp?t=79099

[mnaz]

Had to shorten it. And I took "Israel" out of the text and made quick mention of Jerusalem. Because from my reading, much if not most of ongoing Middle Eastern conflict seems to boil down to a "holy struggle" over who gets that city. Undoubtedly there's more to the whole awful puzzle, but that's a big part of it. And yes, America is part of that battle, through the ongoing influence (and ever increasing political power) of the Evangelical "End Timers," who almost invariably have a so-called "Zionist" component to their belief systems. Or so it seems.

[mtmynd]

god rocks
mind destroys
cycles spin

mnaz: The Answer is unquestionable.

true. the answer is experienced, without question.

mnaz: a monotony of peace.

is this what starts war... tired of peace..?

mnaz: Question the earth’s age and goons came for you.

"Goon Power" is so misdirected, as if god were holding a gun to their heads to do his will.

mnaz: Fossils were planted by Satan to confuse.

Nowhere in the Bible, I believe, but yet that same "Goon Power" use fossils as evidence of Satan.

mnaz: The Bible is a masterwork—poetry, storytelling and wisdom. Could use a better translator maybe.

One of man's masterworks out of many. But that is not information shared by the Bible's inadequate translators.

This 'End times' that is so Biblical, doesn't seem to fly with Non-Christian belief systems, at lease not on the order of Jerusalem being the 'center of the world' where those end times will occur. But that geographical center is the birth place of what has become 'Christianity".

Enjoyed your visionary write... again, amigo. Good stuff to contemplate.

[hester_prynne]

".....God’s star-spangled ear if you must, the swinish politics and suicide, but get back in the truck and go on, further into a dust-borne tide. Go deeper...."

A toast to that.
Astonishingly good read, especially on a lazy sunday morning, sunday side up Jazz playing in the back realms....
Really good read Mnaz....
H

[mnaz]

Cec-- I thought about saying, "God is unquestionable," but left it at "The Answer," since this piece more about doctrine, the "God-in-a-Box" syndrome, the "politicized and hijacked God," which as many around here know, is something I harp on occasionally. Religion as a path, as experience, in beautiful tribute to a higher power, in good will and understanding is not the problem. And yes, "Satan" has been used for many a moon by various doctrine pushers as leverage against those who disagree ("they're being blinded by Satan). Same thing with "Anti-Christ," as I seem to recall reading somewhere. Thanks.

And Hest, you made my afternoon! Thank you. Nice to know I'm not just pissing in the wind. It was a hard piece to write.