http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=372551
If you are considering sending your poetry manuscript out for consideration to a major publishing house, you might as well hang it up, forget the whole thing, go dancing instead.
Not one major publishing house considers poetry manuscripts.
For the rare smaller publisher who does publish poetry, you had better have a long list of publishing credits for poems published in major periodicals like the New Yorker or they aren't even going to look at your manuscript.
Just wanted to let you guys know.
Now, if you have already had a novel published or some other form of literature and have a well-known name because of it, that's different.
I figured it was this hopeless but now, thanks to Google Answers, I have proof!
lol
So? What should we do with these reams of poetry that we know are just as good as many of those well-known poets who are taught in English lit classes?
That's right. Nothing. Just throw them away, post them on blogs, come in here and on other websites and post them and don't even consider an opportunity for more people to read your work in print 'cause most likely it ain't gonna happen.
Accept it.
If you're interested in getting paid for your work, become a novelist. Otherwise, consider your poetry simply something fun to do to keep you off the streets.
Your friend,
doe
Google Answer? – Fahgettabout it!
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Doreen Peri
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Ya know D i saw gary snyder do a ? & anser at a poetry reading in d.c. a few years back and when asked by someone how does a poet make a living in the u.s.of a. his response was "you stick to your day job."
The best way to proliferate your poetry is by getting in the art scene and doing the readings, people are then able to hear your stuff and buy whatever product you have, but of course you know this. I learned at a young age from a big time sculptor i worked for in the village that half of making it in the arts is getting out there, going to the events and schmoozing, then you meet the right folks and the ball starts rolling, that is if ya got what their looking for......
The best way to proliferate your poetry is by getting in the art scene and doing the readings, people are then able to hear your stuff and buy whatever product you have, but of course you know this. I learned at a young age from a big time sculptor i worked for in the village that half of making it in the arts is getting out there, going to the events and schmoozing, then you meet the right folks and the ball starts rolling, that is if ya got what their looking for......
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Doreen Peri
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Yeah, I do know that in regards to a local arts scene, Mark. It's good to get out there and perform. I wish I had more time to do that and more easily accessible local venues.
But most of those local poets, if they have a book or books, they are usually self published. If they have a CD or two or three, the same goes. They had to invest in creating and producing the product, as well as marketing and distributing it.
And that's too bad.
I know quite a few accomplished poets who deserve to be read and heard by a much wider audience than a local audience. The only way to get a wide audience is to get published by one of the reputable major publishing houses.
That's just my opinion, of course. I'd love to learn I'm wrong.
But most of those local poets, if they have a book or books, they are usually self published. If they have a CD or two or three, the same goes. They had to invest in creating and producing the product, as well as marketing and distributing it.
And that's too bad.
I know quite a few accomplished poets who deserve to be read and heard by a much wider audience than a local audience. The only way to get a wide audience is to get published by one of the reputable major publishing houses.
That's just my opinion, of course. I'd love to learn I'm wrong.
It's called a start, you start in Baltimore and D.C. and work yer way up, once you've made a name for yourself. You make the time to do the legwork and hobknobbing, it'll never happen sitting at home, that's for sure, ya have to live the artist life, even with a job, kids and responsibilities, everyone has em D.......
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Zlatko Waterman
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Dear Doreen:
The poetry and publication scene, as you announce it Doreen, is accurately described. As a person who has submitted and been rejected and had my poems published in dozens of magazines over a space of thirty years, who has run two publishing houses ( as Editor) specializing in poetry, I can affirm that if you don't have a friendly millionaire handy who is inclined to "throw away" money ( as opposed to Donald Rumsfeld's seven --count 'em-- seven residences, three vacation houses in the Carribbean and elsewhere) on publishing books of poems and poetry mags, you are low on gas.
Government Grants ( poor in this country-- five cities in Germany each put out more money than the entire USA supporting musicians and musical events!), or an attachment to a university or college, or publication by subscription are pretty much the only ways.
And Mark ( WIREMAN) is so, so very correct. Schmoozing is the way.
I don't know if you remember the true story I posted here. I always said that if you wanted your novel published, the most important thing was to know Clint Eastwood.
Everyone among my tiny circle of friends laughed. But it's true.
A Hollywood producer, whose 24-year-old daughter was a disappointed novelist, took her three unpublishable works to Clint at the studio. Within a year, the "Good, Bad, and Ugly" guy had all three of her novels in print, just through his personal connections.
Don't swim in the shark tank,
Zlatko
The poetry and publication scene, as you announce it Doreen, is accurately described. As a person who has submitted and been rejected and had my poems published in dozens of magazines over a space of thirty years, who has run two publishing houses ( as Editor) specializing in poetry, I can affirm that if you don't have a friendly millionaire handy who is inclined to "throw away" money ( as opposed to Donald Rumsfeld's seven --count 'em-- seven residences, three vacation houses in the Carribbean and elsewhere) on publishing books of poems and poetry mags, you are low on gas.
Government Grants ( poor in this country-- five cities in Germany each put out more money than the entire USA supporting musicians and musical events!), or an attachment to a university or college, or publication by subscription are pretty much the only ways.
And Mark ( WIREMAN) is so, so very correct. Schmoozing is the way.
I don't know if you remember the true story I posted here. I always said that if you wanted your novel published, the most important thing was to know Clint Eastwood.
Everyone among my tiny circle of friends laughed. But it's true.
A Hollywood producer, whose 24-year-old daughter was a disappointed novelist, took her three unpublishable works to Clint at the studio. Within a year, the "Good, Bad, and Ugly" guy had all three of her novels in print, just through his personal connections.
Don't swim in the shark tank,
Zlatko
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Doreen Peri
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I'm not necessarily talking about me, Mark, but sure, I'd love to have a wider audience.
But what if I didn't want to be a performance poet which I am, but what if that wasn't what I wanted? What if I just wanted my work in print, in books?
And what about all the others I'm referring to who have never ever performed one poem in public in their entire life and don't like to be on stage? They're writers and their work is darn good and should have an audience? What if they just want to have some manuscripts published?
Speaking of performance poets.... I recently listened to a CD Dave the Dov was kind enough to send me. It had live performances by Ferlinghetti and Corso and Ginsberg and several other beat generation poets and (no offense to Dave, of course! .. he was very kind to send it to me) but I was bored silly! Those dudes had monotone voices that can put someone to sleep! I also have a collection of CDs which came in a box set which include called the Caedman Poetry Collection...
Check it out
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/bookse ... 0694522783
Scroll down to read a list off all the poets who are on these CDs. Remarkable, eh?
Ha! Not so! Er, yeah, well they ARE remarkable poets but to me? The readings were boring as hell, monotone voices, just awful awful awful! I do thank my sister for giving me the collection for christmas last year but damn, Mark! If that's what our most accomplished poets sound like, it's just soooo sad!
I'd much rather read all of them in print than to listen to it!
Anyway, I went off on a tangent, huh? Sorry about that.
My point is that not every poet can be a performer. Not many have the talent for it, for one thing. For another thing, many are BETTER when read in print. AND many don't want to be performers. They just want to have books published and they deserve to because there is some great poetry floating around out there during OUR generation which I think equals or surpasses the quality of many of the revered poets which are taught in school.
Where do these poets go to get their books in print? Nowhere.
It's a shame. They either have to do like Whitman did and self publish and give the stuff away until their names get recognized or forget the whole idea entirely.
But what if I didn't want to be a performance poet which I am, but what if that wasn't what I wanted? What if I just wanted my work in print, in books?
And what about all the others I'm referring to who have never ever performed one poem in public in their entire life and don't like to be on stage? They're writers and their work is darn good and should have an audience? What if they just want to have some manuscripts published?
Speaking of performance poets.... I recently listened to a CD Dave the Dov was kind enough to send me. It had live performances by Ferlinghetti and Corso and Ginsberg and several other beat generation poets and (no offense to Dave, of course! .. he was very kind to send it to me) but I was bored silly! Those dudes had monotone voices that can put someone to sleep! I also have a collection of CDs which came in a box set which include called the Caedman Poetry Collection...
Check it out
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/bookse ... 0694522783
Scroll down to read a list off all the poets who are on these CDs. Remarkable, eh?
Ha! Not so! Er, yeah, well they ARE remarkable poets but to me? The readings were boring as hell, monotone voices, just awful awful awful! I do thank my sister for giving me the collection for christmas last year but damn, Mark! If that's what our most accomplished poets sound like, it's just soooo sad!
I'd much rather read all of them in print than to listen to it!
Anyway, I went off on a tangent, huh? Sorry about that.
My point is that not every poet can be a performer. Not many have the talent for it, for one thing. For another thing, many are BETTER when read in print. AND many don't want to be performers. They just want to have books published and they deserve to because there is some great poetry floating around out there during OUR generation which I think equals or surpasses the quality of many of the revered poets which are taught in school.
Where do these poets go to get their books in print? Nowhere.
It's a shame. They either have to do like Whitman did and self publish and give the stuff away until their names get recognized or forget the whole idea entirely.
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Doreen Peri
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I was typing when you replied, Zlatko!
Yep, what you said just about hits the nail on the head.
Perhaps poets should approach it like Jewel. Are you familiar with her?
She went the route of a lyricist and singer. Made a name for herself as a recording artist.
After that, people knew who she was and now she has several volumes of poetry published. I'm not saying it's great poetry or anything. Sorta reminds me of Rod McKuen. (Did I spell his name right?) But it's out there. At Borders Books and Barnes & Noble.... right there on the shelf and she's getting paid royalties and everything.
Yep, what you said just about hits the nail on the head.
Perhaps poets should approach it like Jewel. Are you familiar with her?
She went the route of a lyricist and singer. Made a name for herself as a recording artist.
After that, people knew who she was and now she has several volumes of poetry published. I'm not saying it's great poetry or anything. Sorta reminds me of Rod McKuen. (Did I spell his name right?) But it's out there. At Borders Books and Barnes & Noble.... right there on the shelf and she's getting paid royalties and everything.
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Doreen Peri
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There's a big problem with what you are talking about....to become the poet your talking about you'd have to be an academic
and as we both know it's a bit late for that. What I'm saying simply is that you have to create a recognizable persona by getting out there in the art world in order to be recognized as a poet, sculptor, painter, whatever your passion and without an academic background it's an uphill battle all the way........
and as we both know it's a bit late for that. What I'm saying simply is that you have to create a recognizable persona by getting out there in the art world in order to be recognized as a poet, sculptor, painter, whatever your passion and without an academic background it's an uphill battle all the way........
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Doreen Peri
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Sorry, Mark. I disagree. I don't believe you have to be an "academic" to be a published poet whose work is known and studied and respected.
And if what it takes for a poet to get his or her work pubished is to become known with a "recognizable persona," then, to me, that's nothing other than becoming a celebrity and I just have a problem with that concept.
There are many poets out there who are the poets I am talking about (and who are not "academics") but who haven't had the opportunity to see their work in print.
It's a problem, alright.
The way to go is probably to hit the magazines and do what Zlatko has done, submit submit submit ... then build up publishing credits so you can approach a smaller publishing house which DOES accept poetry manuscripts, having some publishing credits under your belt.
And if what it takes for a poet to get his or her work pubished is to become known with a "recognizable persona," then, to me, that's nothing other than becoming a celebrity and I just have a problem with that concept.
There are many poets out there who are the poets I am talking about (and who are not "academics") but who haven't had the opportunity to see their work in print.
It's a problem, alright.
The way to go is probably to hit the magazines and do what Zlatko has done, submit submit submit ... then build up publishing credits so you can approach a smaller publishing house which DOES accept poetry manuscripts, having some publishing credits under your belt.
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Doreen Peri
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Zlatko Waterman
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Sorry, Doreen:
When you mentioned Jewel, I had to make an emergency trip to the vomitorium and I was tardy returning to the keyboard.
Yes, there are poets and near-poets who make it. There is Jewel and there is Rod and there are others.
Ted Kooser and Billy Collins are pretty entertaining to read, particularly Billy.
I can see no reason why poems have to be boring. But I do feel they ought to surmount the state of stand-up comedy routines and/or adolescent nocturnal ( or diurnal) emissions.
I think there's a wry "poem" just in this title-- I'll tell you the story briefly:
I was walking down Magnolia Ave., in the district of Burbank called "Magnolia Park" on Wednesday night-- the night when I meet with fellow cartoonists and Hollywood storyboard denizens, etc.-- and saw this huge billboard-- ten feet high and thirty feet long, that said, in huge red letters with an exclamation point five feet high at the end of the word:
OKLAHOMO!
And I noticed the billboard fronted one of the small theaters in the very active small theater scene in LA ( so many unemployed, but good actors-- you can see how this ties in with unpublished poets . . .)
Well, sure enough, it wasn't a misprint-- or a mis-paint.
And Yes, it is a gay send-up of "Oklahoma!"
Songs include:
"Oh, what a beautiful Penis!"
and
"I'm just a boy who can't say no"
Here's the Third Stage website, and a review of the play, "Oklahomo!"
(paste)
http://www.eyespyla.com/www/thebuzz.nsf ... enDocument
(Third Stage)
http://www.google.com/local?hl=en&lr=&q ... 7859248471
--Z
When you mentioned Jewel, I had to make an emergency trip to the vomitorium and I was tardy returning to the keyboard.
Yes, there are poets and near-poets who make it. There is Jewel and there is Rod and there are others.
Ted Kooser and Billy Collins are pretty entertaining to read, particularly Billy.
I can see no reason why poems have to be boring. But I do feel they ought to surmount the state of stand-up comedy routines and/or adolescent nocturnal ( or diurnal) emissions.
I think there's a wry "poem" just in this title-- I'll tell you the story briefly:
I was walking down Magnolia Ave., in the district of Burbank called "Magnolia Park" on Wednesday night-- the night when I meet with fellow cartoonists and Hollywood storyboard denizens, etc.-- and saw this huge billboard-- ten feet high and thirty feet long, that said, in huge red letters with an exclamation point five feet high at the end of the word:
OKLAHOMO!
And I noticed the billboard fronted one of the small theaters in the very active small theater scene in LA ( so many unemployed, but good actors-- you can see how this ties in with unpublished poets . . .)
Well, sure enough, it wasn't a misprint-- or a mis-paint.
And Yes, it is a gay send-up of "Oklahoma!"
Songs include:
"Oh, what a beautiful Penis!"
and
"I'm just a boy who can't say no"
Here's the Third Stage website, and a review of the play, "Oklahomo!"
(paste)
http://www.eyespyla.com/www/thebuzz.nsf ... enDocument
(Third Stage)
http://www.google.com/local?hl=en&lr=&q ... 7859248471
--Z
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Doreen Peri
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Hahahahahahahaha!!! 
Oklahomo!!!
Too funny, Zlatko!!! I love it!!! Thanks for the story, the links and the song titles!
Hey, sorry to cause you to run to the commode to worship the porcelain goddess.... I was just trying to make a point. I guess I made it well. You got the message.
Somebody said an agent helps, but I don't think an agent helps much when it comes to poetry because there's such a slim market for it.
And a poet certainly doesn't do himself a favor by self publishing, though I do have a dear admiration for a well produced chapbook! I love chapbooks!
No poet looking to be published, though, would include his or her chapbooks in a list of published works when presenting a manuscript to a publishing house! It would be sure death and that's a crying shame, really.
I just don't like the way the whole thing works.
Speaking of entertainment... I was thinking I'd work on becoming a poetry slut. I'd just write customized end-rhyming poems for people's birthdays and anniversaries, sell them on the web, and make a name for myself that way. No, never mind. It's already been done.
I could just as easily become Jewel or Rod, but that's been done already, too. Ugh. Where's the commode?
Plus, if I'm going to sell out, I'd rather go with the stand-up comedy routine. We just watched Dustin Hoffman playing Lenny the other night. Now that man was a poet! Too bad his comedy wasn't at all funny after a while, but it sure was poetic!
You're right. There is an extremely witty wry poem in here somewhere, destined to be a classic. Maybe I'll write it. I'll file it with all the rest.
Oklahomo!!!Too funny, Zlatko!!! I love it!!! Thanks for the story, the links and the song titles!
Hey, sorry to cause you to run to the commode to worship the porcelain goddess.... I was just trying to make a point. I guess I made it well. You got the message.
Somebody said an agent helps, but I don't think an agent helps much when it comes to poetry because there's such a slim market for it.
And a poet certainly doesn't do himself a favor by self publishing, though I do have a dear admiration for a well produced chapbook! I love chapbooks!
No poet looking to be published, though, would include his or her chapbooks in a list of published works when presenting a manuscript to a publishing house! It would be sure death and that's a crying shame, really.
I just don't like the way the whole thing works.
Speaking of entertainment... I was thinking I'd work on becoming a poetry slut. I'd just write customized end-rhyming poems for people's birthdays and anniversaries, sell them on the web, and make a name for myself that way. No, never mind. It's already been done.
I could just as easily become Jewel or Rod, but that's been done already, too. Ugh. Where's the commode?Plus, if I'm going to sell out, I'd rather go with the stand-up comedy routine. We just watched Dustin Hoffman playing Lenny the other night. Now that man was a poet! Too bad his comedy wasn't at all funny after a while, but it sure was poetic!
You're right. There is an extremely witty wry poem in here somewhere, destined to be a classic. Maybe I'll write it. I'll file it with all the rest.
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Doreen Peri
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Before I leave this topic for a while, I just wanted to mention one poet I know, J. Brian Long. I met him at the Scroll website in 1998 and watched him grow as a poet for several years.
I heard that he had a book published and quickly bought it because I've always admired his work. I was not disappointed!
Here's a link to his book, "The Singing of the Wheels"
http://windpub.com/books/singing.htm
Here's a previously unpublished poet who went the route of finding a publishing house which publishes local poets who live in his area. It worked. They published him and this book is a fine accomplishment.
Zlatko, I know you would love it! He is a craftsman who you would admire.
Anyway, I hope the publication of this book gives Brian many more opportunities to get his work published.
We featured a few of his poems on this page
http://studioeight.tv/openmic.html
but the book has many more wonderful and (forgive me, Brian) more accomplished works which show his craftsmanship.
This wasn't meant to be an ad.
It was only meant to say that there are some talented, accomplished poets out there who are doing something right to get their work in print.
Maybe I'll get in touch with Brian and direct him to this thread and ask him to reply. I'd love to hear what he has to say about this topic.
(ps... buy the book! haha... it turned into an ad!!! *sigh*:D)
I heard that he had a book published and quickly bought it because I've always admired his work. I was not disappointed!
Here's a link to his book, "The Singing of the Wheels"
http://windpub.com/books/singing.htm
Here's a previously unpublished poet who went the route of finding a publishing house which publishes local poets who live in his area. It worked. They published him and this book is a fine accomplishment.
Zlatko, I know you would love it! He is a craftsman who you would admire.
Anyway, I hope the publication of this book gives Brian many more opportunities to get his work published.
We featured a few of his poems on this page
http://studioeight.tv/openmic.html
but the book has many more wonderful and (forgive me, Brian) more accomplished works which show his craftsmanship.
This wasn't meant to be an ad.
It was only meant to say that there are some talented, accomplished poets out there who are doing something right to get their work in print.
Maybe I'll get in touch with Brian and direct him to this thread and ask him to reply. I'd love to hear what he has to say about this topic.
(ps... buy the book! haha... it turned into an ad!!! *sigh*:D)
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stilltrucking
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Did I delete one on you Doreen. I don't remember Sometimes I will delete if I still got the X. If I did delete one here it might be about the problem's of mid list author's. Which seemed inappropriate to this string.
So you got a small group of friends who read your poetry here. I know Z says she is kind of irrelevant but Sylvia Plath so much my model for the burning desire to get published. The thrill it will get you to get a poem in The New Yorker. She was an asute student of her "market" I for one would like to read your poetry in print. Espcially the longer ones. I am an ink miser. Post them please, we can each put you in print. And the check is in the mail.
I got back here from Z's post on another board. Sorry if I deleted one on you. I am more responsible about the edits I make to my posts after someone replies to them. Maybe that helps me make ammends
for my deletions.
if it was me
Just call me MrGuilty.
man I am going to regret this in the morning. Got to start work early, if I go to sleep in eleven minutes I can still get six hours sleep
good night
So you got a small group of friends who read your poetry here. I know Z says she is kind of irrelevant but Sylvia Plath so much my model for the burning desire to get published. The thrill it will get you to get a poem in The New Yorker. She was an asute student of her "market" I for one would like to read your poetry in print. Espcially the longer ones. I am an ink miser. Post them please, we can each put you in print. And the check is in the mail.
I got back here from Z's post on another board. Sorry if I deleted one on you. I am more responsible about the edits I make to my posts after someone replies to them. Maybe that helps me make ammends
for my deletions.
if it was me
Just call me MrGuilty.
man I am going to regret this in the morning. Got to start work early, if I go to sleep in eleven minutes I can still get six hours sleep
good night
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