US GENERAL ON IRAQ WITHDRAWAL

[stilltrucking]

It is a mess down here Knip. Not to change the subject but it is the corruption that has got us into this mess. The old military industrial conspiracy that Ike warned us about. I could see Afghanistan but look what has happened. We pulled the resources away to invade Iraq. Dollar signs in both there eyes.Pakistan is a dam good joke. Our friend? I don't think so. Everyone talks about China, my hope is India. I see the day when Canada and India will be sending peace corp volunteers to the US.

rambling sorry Cecil said it pretty well I think.

Hi, Jimbo - the 'collective we' is just what it implies... all of us are in this mess together, each with a different purpose, each with a different outlook, each with a different motive, but it is 'we' regardless, the collective we that inhabit not only this country but this planet. No big deal.

http://www.studioeight.tv/phpbb/viewtop ... c&start=15
Take care amigo.
No country has ever been blessed with such good neighbors as the USA.

[mnaz]

knip.... Iraq as an "escape route" for the bad guys? Aren't you reaching just a wee bit? Why Iraq, in particular?

Certain governments don't do things for the reasons they say they do. There's an understatement. The question remains. Why, at this stage of the game, must Western troops remain? To keep on "choking off" terrorist routes? What really is to be gained by staying (in terms of your terrorist-containment argument)? Just it justify the losses? What about the very real possibility that staying is creating more potential terrorists than it is killing?

[knip]

it's not a stretch...it's called regional traffic patterns


i know the 'should i stay or should i go' argument is a tough nut to crack...but wouldn't leaving just create the condition to go back? i mean, if iraq turned into sudan or rwanda, would you want your backs to remain turned on it?

[stilltrucking]

Dam it. It is Rwanda, it is Sudan. Because we are there. Christ man you been going on like this for three years now. All the way back to Poetry and Politics. You may be wrong but I give you a 9.9 for Consistency

[knip]

well, that's something, i guess



don't get me wrong, here, s/t, sometimes i am merely trying to poke holes in arguments rather than putting forward a certain point of view...because all these arguments are full of holes, including many of my own...

[knip]

but i think the point is valid...if the US leaves iraq, and the sunnis start genociding the shi'ites, or the other way around, then does the US go back in?

[stilltrucking]

The war was ill concieved. The people running it are corrupt and incompetent.. Is there any doubt about that?

[stilltrucking]

That is what is happening now. So what is the difference between staying or going?

[knip]

sure, but you've just described most wars and most governments

[mnaz]

Alright. I concede the "regional patterns" point. So intercept terrorists and keep Iraq under containment. Fine.

It seems to me we already had this before the invasion. So why invade to begin with? And why persist in what promises to be an endless, fruitless war? Why couldn't troops be withdrawn and Iraq contained henceforth the way it was from '91-'03 (successfully, apparently)?

Aren't our "backs turned" now to many more potential terrorist threats, including Sudan and Rwanda, with our resource drain and preoccupation with Iraq? I don't follow your thinking here. We shouldn't "turn our back" on any potential threat in the region. Of course not. I don't see how Iraq's interminable, struggling, expensive occupation gets us any closer to that goal however. I actually think it takes us further away from it.

[knip]

well, there's that little thing called 'a matter of degree'

[stilltrucking]

I don't know, I give Canada a better conscience than I do the USA. My god any country with a maple leaf on their flag is with me.

[stilltrucking]

Is it a coincidence that whenever Bush is in trouble someone makes terrorist threats. Osama three days before the election in 2004

And now he gives a speach about terrorism and

New York steps up security after subway terror threat
Fri Oct 7, 2005 1:52 AM BST
Printer Friendly | Email Article | RSS

NYC Subways On Alert

By Daniel Trotta and Christine Kearney

NEW YORK (Reuters) - New York authorities stepped up security across the city on Thursday after what officials described as a specific and credible threat of a terrorist attack on the subway system in the coming days.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg said the FBI had alerted him to "a specific threat to our subway system," which had come from overseas but had already been partially thwarted, while some officials cast doubt on the credibility of the threat.

"
© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.






MORE

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArt ... EWYORK.xml

God all mighty you guys want to debate. I say bring them home, let the chips fall. Let it go, we are making it worse. According to your arguements we should still be fighting in Viet Nam

[knip]

i'm not sure if you're asking for my perception of the US government point of view, or my personal perception...given that i have my doubts that the US govt actually knows what they're doing, i'll give my personal viewpoint


i am in favour of helping the downtrodden, the murdered, the oppressed...i am in favour of taking saddam out of iraq - i think the (relatively) short-term pain is worth the long-term gain...i am also in favour of repairing all the other failed and failing states, like sudan and rwanda...my preference would be for a unified effort through a body such as the UN, unfortunately, the UN security council is held hostage by countries with veto powers that are exercised with their own national goals in mind

so my hope is that like-minded nations will eventually wake up to reality and understand, over time, that this planet needs us to draw everyone into this global economy and globalization thing we got going on

would iraq be my first spot to do this? not really...but it is where the effort is right now, and, from my personal perspective, nothing good can come from walking back from that



i suppose i should pre-empt the obvious comeback by saying, yes, i have been to many, many places, and although tyrants in power may not want to be part of the global culture, the people do...they emphatically do

[stilltrucking]

I imagine a one world government. Everything is peachy until someone like George W Bush becomes its leader. Then we are all screwed. Human nature knip. I have met the
enemy and he is me. The global economy. No thanks. I want anarchism, cottage industries. Think local. After the whole thing comes crashing down we start again. Matriarchial tribes of hunter gatherers Good luck