US AIRSTRIKE KILLS AT LEAST 18 CHILDREN

What in the world is going on?
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jimboloco
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Post by jimboloco » October 26th, 2005, 7:32 am

Something I want to say here, something I have noticedin my life, is that it doesn't really matter what the person's political attitude is, in terms of friendship. I have known liberal-radicals who I could not get close to, who were elitist, snobbish, and unapproachable, especially during my years of pain and trembling, and I have been friends with crazy conservatives as well, who helped with my healing.

Now I count my best friends I guess by the ability to relate and care.

Forgive me if I tresspassed upon your sanctity. It was the heat of battle.

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uh, maybe if we hide under the covers it will all go away

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tanks for da memories

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Iraqi children cry next to the body of a boy killed in US airstrikesin Ramadi, Iraq,

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dead children [enemies of the state] killed by the Armed Forces of their own country [trained by and under the watchful eye of the School of the Americas(Ft. Benning, Georgia, U.S.A.)].
El Salvador, late 80’s.

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"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."


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and the beat goes on

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Last edited by jimboloco on October 26th, 2005, 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[color=darkcyan]i'm on a survival mission
yo ho ho an a bottle of rum om[/color]

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Zlatko Waterman
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Post by Zlatko Waterman » October 26th, 2005, 9:15 am

Dear Jim:


There is nothing to say about the profoundly moving pictures you have posted and linked to in your message.

I can only say this:

These pictures are eloquent in stating the reason why I have posted all the anti-Iraq war material on StudioEight.

The Bush administration is somehow able to rationalize its crimes, to itself, at least. In their comfortable surroundings, they are quite insulated from the hell and murder they command daily.

Politics are irrelevant to the state of affairs these pictures describe.

War is about killing.



--Z

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jimboloco
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Post by jimboloco » October 26th, 2005, 1:13 pm

it ain't an easy thing what i have been doing here.
it got me into a bad funk, time for the shrink and the zen therapist.
[color=darkcyan]i'm on a survival mission
yo ho ho an a bottle of rum om[/color]

hester_prynne

Post by hester_prynne » October 26th, 2005, 2:42 pm

Jim, those pictures....are reason enough. :cry:

I can't imagine the hell this must bring back on one who has experienced being in war firsthand. It's bad enough just being a citizen forced to watch.

From the bottom of my heart I offer you a hand to hang on to, and I indeed, feel a tremendous sense of respect and hope, because you speak out against it, rather than go into fighting mode, or excuse mode.
I really do.
Thank you so much for being who you are Jim, for being real and not a willing puppet. For crashing through the denial, lies and arrogance, and giving us the truth, from one who has really been there........with open eyes that have remained true to the real American spirit.
Bushko needs to be impeached and tried, they are traitors and I'm beginning to believe they/we are so deluded that if we don't do something big soon, like Germany in the past, we will need to be rescued by other countries, from our own leaders.
History does repeat itself.....sadly enough.....
H 8)

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Post by knip » October 26th, 2005, 5:08 pm

We will always need warriors, it is just war that we cannot afford anymore. We as a species have just got too got dam good at it.
i've said this before and i say it again...wars have decreased in the last 50 years or so, and the collateral damage has decreased as well, given increases in precision munitions

that was a response to something s/t said, and had nothing to do with jimbo's photos


thanks for the photos, jimbo...it is important to be touched by the results of what one, or one's leaders, do...it brings us closer to truth

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Post by stilltrucking » October 26th, 2005, 7:03 pm

knip when I said we will always need warriors I was thinking about Rwanda and that book Shake Hands With The Devil.

as for painting a rosey picture of how warfare has become kinder and gentler
that is bullshit knip. I don't know why you say things like that.

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mnaz
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Post by mnaz » October 26th, 2005, 7:30 pm

knip wrote:i've said this before and i say it again...wars have decreased in the last 50 years or so, and the collateral damage has decreased as well, given increases in precision munitions
This may be true. Though with WW2 and post-WW2 carnage as your starting point, it's hard for the stats to show any other result. There was nowhere to go but down, statistically.

And of course, none of this has to do with bad policy and judgment which may be emboldened by these "precision munitions", which can lead to prolonged suffering and bloodshed; extended conflicts, many of which aren't even technically called a "war". We're seeing this in Iraq. Because of the growing insurgency, US soldiers are much more prone to shoot first and ask questions later, if at all. And the US is targeting suspected insurgents with air strikes. Civilians are getting bombed. What's happening in Iraq is a war, even if some would prefer to call it something else, like 'peace-keeping mission', or whatever.

Yeah, I get it. Ironically, on paper, more precise killing technology may reduce per capita casualties. But it can't cover for bad policy. Not really.

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Post by knip » October 26th, 2005, 7:47 pm

as for painting a rosey picture of how warfare has become kinder and gentler
that is bullshit knip. I don't know why you say things like that.

not what i said...i'm getting tired of this



shake hands with the devil was a huge book for me...informs much of what i currently believe

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mnaz
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Post by mnaz » October 26th, 2005, 7:51 pm

i'm getting tired of this
Me too.

I quit.

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Post by knip » October 26th, 2005, 7:51 pm

mnaz...2005-50=1955...i wasn't talking about WW II


i agree with much of what you say, btw, although i might choose to describe things differently (i'll probably get hammerd by someone for that statement, too...i seem to be getting hammered for just about everything i say)

fwiw, today's US soldiers are not much more prone to shooting first and aksing questions later...while this tendency has been measurably shown over the years, so has the media's shaping of public perceptions increased over the years...this has little to do with the conversation at hand, but i add it to clarify the misconception

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K&D
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Post by K&D » October 26th, 2005, 7:54 pm

what perception do you beleive the media is leading people to have?
Blah!

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mnaz
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Post by mnaz » October 26th, 2005, 8:02 pm

mnaz...2005-50=1955...i wasn't talking about WW II
You said 50 years, or so. I wasn't sure exactly what you meant by that.
today's US soldiers are not much more prone to shooting first and aksing questions later


I was commenting within the context of the Iraq conflict and its unpredictable and growing insurgency. A couple of articles on this board seem to back up my statement.

But..... whatever.

Anyway. Like I say. I quit. At least for awhile.
Last edited by mnaz on October 26th, 2005, 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

knip
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Post by knip » October 26th, 2005, 8:03 pm

i think the media puts whatever slant on news that they feel will cause people to tune in...i think the days of straight fact reporting are long gone, and that flavour is added according to what the industry thinks the public has a taste for

i think the expansion of the media has had many wonderful effects, but that there are side effects as well



i'm not too big on the 'liberal media' or 'conservative media' labels...although certain shows are pretty guilty of this, i see little evidence entire networks are being partisan (all that much)...certainly not as much as in previous years

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jimboloco
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Post by jimboloco » October 26th, 2005, 8:10 pm

Knip I wonder about the shootings of innocents by the Yanks in Iraq, a fair number as well as recently the Brits gunned down a hresidence with a number of Basranians who were offed because a couple of Brits had been taken prisoner, turned over to the insurgents by Iraqi coppers who were friendly to said insurgency.

as far as precision bombing goes, well, a doctor in Basra had his entire fanily killed when his house was bombed instead of the house next door where Chemical Ali was supposed to bee.
Sure, a B-52 can now lay down a straight line of bomb craters, and so forth, yet there have been a significant number of civilian casualties, due to the high speed that planes fly, and due to the fact that heavily populated areas were bombed, make it inevitable also the so-called intelligence.

Tactical air support of gyrenes bogged down by enemy insurgents firing from a village or city may very well hit the target, but the bombs are so powerful that they still destroy well beyond their specific target.

The cops in America shoot first, depending on if you are a person of color. My god it happens all the time. The same rascist mentality carries over to our foreign wars.

Honor the warrior not the war, so they say.
Shit, I ain't dying for no white man!

For a media alternative, try tuning in to Democracy Now. Today, Col Janice Karpinski, the former prisons commandant in Iraq, spoke at length about how Abu Grave? prison was specifically commandeered by the intels, that the code of treatment of the prisoners came down from the very top, and that she was kept in the dark about it, and when she tried to intrude, was made scapegoated, all in her new book, One woman's Army
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She was shown the videos about this shit and was pissed, so Dubya demoted her. She was adamant that humane treatment be accorded whenever possible. She stated that a memo circulated by Rumsfeld set the tone for interrogation techniques in excess.

Anyhow, our government is corrupt.
Man I can kill somebody as easily as you can if the situation deems it necessary. Christ, I am not dying or killing for a righ bastard.
Last edited by jimboloco on October 26th, 2005, 8:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
[color=darkcyan]i'm on a survival mission
yo ho ho an a bottle of rum om[/color]

knip
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Post by knip » October 26th, 2005, 8:16 pm

i agree with everything you said in that post, jimbo, and i'll also note none of that disagrees with anything i said, either


but like mnaz, i believe i'll retire from the conversation

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