HH the Dalai Lama: Science at the Crossroads

[whimsicaldeb]

my favorite excerpts from ... (emphasis added by me)

http://www.dalailama.com/page.8.htm

Science at the Crossroads
By Tenzin Gyatso, the Dalai Lama
This article is based on a talk given by the Dalai Lama at the annual meeting of the Society for Neuroscience on November 12, 2005 in Washington DC

... Some might wonder "What is a Buddhist monk doing taking such a deep interest in science? What relation could there be between Buddhism, an ancient Indian philosophical and spiritual tradition, and modern science? What possible benefit could there be for a scientific discipline such as neuroscience in engaging in dialogue with Buddhist contemplative tradition?"

Although Buddhist contemplative tradition and modern science have evolved from different historical, intellectual and cultural roots, I believe that at heart they share significant commonalities, especially in their basic philosophical outlook and methodology. On the philosophical level, both Buddhism and modern science share a deep suspicion of any notion of absolutes, whether conceptualized as a transcendent being, as an eternal, unchanging principle such as soul, or as a fundamental substratum of reality. Both Buddhism and science prefer to account for the evolution and emergence of the cosmos and life in terms of the complex interrelations of the natural laws of cause and effect. From the methodological perspective, both traditions emphasize the role of empiricism. For example, in the Buddhist investigative tradition, between the three recognized sources of knowledge - experience, reason and testimony - it is the evidence of the experience that takes precedence, with reason coming second and testimony last. This means that, in the Buddhist investigation of reality, at least in principle, empirical evidence should triumph over scriptural authority, no matter how deeply venerated a scripture may be. Even in the case of knowledge derived through reason or inference, its validity must derive ultimately from some observed facts of experience. Because of this methodological standpoint, I have often remarked to my Buddhist colleagues that the empirically verified insights of modern cosmology and astronomy must compel us now to modify, or in some cases reject, many aspects of traditional cosmology as found in ancient Buddhist texts.

and ...


By invoking fundamental ethical principles, I am not advocating a fusion of religious ethics and scientific inquiry. Rather, I am speaking of what I call "secular ethics" that embrace the key ethical principles, such as compassion, tolerance, a sense of caring, consideration of others, and the responsible use of knowledge and power - principles that transcend the barriers between religious believers and non-believers, and followers of this religion or that religion. I personally like to imagine all human activities, including science, as individual fingers of a palm. So long as each of these fingers is connected with the palm of basic human empathy and altruism, they will continue to serve the well-being of humanity. We are living in truly one world.

--end excerpts

I agree ~ thank you, your Holiness

[Artguy]

Great article in Shambhala Sun regarding similiar crossroad of science and the Buddhadharma at Dharamshala India also with Dalai Llama...

http://www.shambhalasun.com

http://www.shambhalasun.com/Archives/Fe ... /index.htm

[whimsicaldeb]

OOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo ~ thank you artguy, great link!

[Arcadia]

there is a book that maybe could be interesting for you:"Un puente para dos miradas -conversaciones con el Dalai Lama sobre las ciencias de la mente- ", Dolmen, Santiago de Chile, 1997. In english "Gentle bridges", Shambala Publications (conversations with the Dalai Lama about the sciences of the mind). I read it four or five years ago. I only remember that I found that the questions of the Dalai Lama weren´t my questions at that moment. Maybe I´ll read it again someday.

[whimsicaldeb]

No he leído ese libro particular de Dalai Lama. Mi favorito el suyo, es hasta ahora "éticas para el nuevo milenio" pero me dieron un libro nuevo el suyo para Navidad: "el universo en un solo átomo - la convergencia de la ciencia y la espiritualidad" pero yo han tenido la época, con todo, de leerlo.

Un extracto se puede encontrar aquí:
http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/disp ... ew=excerpt

~~~
english translation:

I've not read that particular Dalai Lama book. My favorite of his, so far, is "Ethic's for the New Millennium" but I was given a new book of his for Christmas: "The Universe in a single Atom - The convergence of Science and Spirituality” but I’ve had the time, yet, to read it.

An excerpt can be found here:
http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/disp ... ew=excerpt

[Arcadia]

thanks for sharing your readings!
saludos,

Arcadia

[e_dog]

the Dalai Lama is a sell-out.

the concepts of experience in religious practice and empirical science are not the same. this sort of feel-good rhetoric is fatal to authentic spiritual traditions. the adage that implcitly rules these gesture is that ifu cannot beat em, join em. but what His Holiness doesn't realize is that modern science doesn't compromise; machinelike it grinds the spiritual sphere to shreds.

science is a destroyer God. you can worship it but it will devour ou nonetheless.

we are truly one world. the world of Samsara (TM).

[stilltrucking]

the Dalai Lama is a sell-out.

The danger these days is scientific religion. The kind Bush Administration practices, the kind of science they did in the USSR during stalin. What you call science I call bullshit bad science.

To me science is the study of the the miraculous, always another mystery behind the answer to another mystery, but talk about your sell outs, so much science is about cashing in on the latest technology,
So are you thinking about Oppenheimer's statement at Los Alamos, I have become Death the destroyer?
Great post WD, reminds me of a bit from "My First Two Thousand Years, by the wandering jew.'

Every once in a while a little genie comes along and pisses on the pillars of science

, parahrase form memory
the pillars of religion too.
I think

[whimsicaldeb]

Hi e_dog and still trucking ...

fyi ... You may want to check out TASTE ...

The Archives of Scientists’ Transcendent Experiences
http://www.issc-taste.org/index.shtml

TASTE is an online journal devoted to transcendent experiences that scientists have reported. It lets scientists express these experiences in a safe space, collects and shares them to debunk the stereotype that "real" scientists don't have "spiritual" or "mystical" or "psychic" experiences, builds a database of these experiences for future research, and helps us understand the full range of the human mind. -- Dr. Charles T. Tart, Ph. D.

Excerpt (from the Intro section)

Science and Scientism

As scientists, we have discovered a body of precisely observed factual data about the world, created a lot of good theories that make sense of much of that data — and we are part of a cultural heritage of scientism. Sociologists coined the term "scientism" back in the 1940s, when they realized that many scientists unthinkingly accepted many scientific theories as simple, unquestioned Truths, just like believers in any "ism," and thus we often acted like any prejudiced "believer," especially outside our immediate areas of expertise.

(cutting)

Fear of Admitting to the Transcendent

Over the years I have had hundreds of fellow scientists from all sorts of fields quietly come up to me at meetings or write or phone me — when they had decided I was safe — to tell me about their unusual experiences apparently going beyond everyday reality, challenging our concepts of what the world is . These were experiences that intrigued them and/or were emotionally important to them, but which they could not tell to their colleagues or friends for fear of rejection or ridicule. Without worrying about more formal definitions, these transcendent experiences have included things such as:

altered states of consciousness (ASCs), often involving new kinds of apparent knowledge and insights

deep feelings of connection with life or the universe

the apparent paranormal/psychic overcoming of ordinary barriers to communication

various kinds of apparent transcendence of our ordinary physical selves.

Sometimes being able to tell me about such experiences in confidence has gotten them off people's chests or even been "therapeutic" (although I'm not a therapist). Sometimes I've been able to give scientific information about these experiences that relieves the reporter, producing a reaction something like: "Oh, it happens to other sane people? There's an established name for it? I'm not alone, it doesn't mean I'm crazy?!" And often the reaction is further on the order of "We only know it happens? But we don't know why? Why aren't we intensively researching these things? I ought to research it, but I can't, I would be. . . ." (reasons to not research it have included being laughed at and rejected, thought crazy, not getting tenure, losing a job, couldn't get any results published, etc.).

Purpose

The TASTE project is an attempt to work toward rectifying this strange, scientistic situation where too many people are forced to deny or repress parts of their own human experience. These Archives are an online journal performing the essential scientific function of full and honest communication of data in this badly neglected area.

I emphasize the word data: no particular theoretical interpretation will be made at this site, other than that such experiences are important. The point is to let the data come out and stimulate us.

--end quote from TASTE introduction.

I personally like to imagine all human activities, including science, as individual fingers of a palm. So long as each of these fingers is connected with the palm of basic human empathy and altruism, they will continue to serve the well-being of humanity. We are living in truly one world. -- HH The Dalai Lama; from the end of article above)

TASTE shows that there are those working in the various fields of science who are also still connected to "the palm of basic human empathy" (and compassion) -- and that the scientific community itself is facing it's own biases, and working out their fears.

And that's good for all of us.

[e_dog]

hey, what scientist do in their spare time is none of my business. that doesn't mean the profession isn't ungodly.

military men may pray to god for forgivness after slaughtering civilians, but that don't make 'em moral.

likewise, scientists, the intellectual servants of pagan technology are enemeies of religion even if they fancy themselves religious. it is a matter of practice, not individual beliefs. the machinery of the scientific world has no room for transcendence.

adults don't believe in Santa Claus even though they act as if they do. some act so well that they may convince themselves that he's real.