Nancy Levant: The Cultural Devastation of American Women

[stilltrucking]

I am sorry about the digression on PMS.

Your talk about biological inferiority made me think of Sylvia Plath. The mother daughter relationship in that book could be the story of my sister and my mother. Did I tell you once? I think I did on the cathouse. You remind me of my baby sister, Maybe it is your avatar, but I think it is your love for our non human friends, who seem more human to me than people.

Plath may have been crazy but she was happy to be a woman. imho. She was not happy with the culture but she had no complaints with her biology.

[stilltrucking]

Oh, hard is the fortune of all woman kind
She's always controlled, she's always confined
Controlled by her parents untill she's a wife
A slave to her husband the rest of her life

I have never read it but I hear it is an interesting book. Man Are From Mars Women Are From Venus.

I am not the one to talk to about this. Just call me Diomedes.

[whimsicaldeb]

I am looking for the American woman to save the world. -- ST

ST – don’t take this the wrong way … but stop!

Don't put "the savior' role upon anyone. (it's a killer!)

As an "American woman" - I can safely say ... I don't want to be yours, or any one elses "savior."

It’s looking for someone to come and ‘save us’ … it’s the putting of that role upon someone as ‘the one’ that is a large part of the problems upon this earth at this time. So stop. Each time you feel yourself looking for someone else to come along and save the day … stop! And if you find someone else doing that – tell them to stop as well.

Change your line of thinking to self responsibility – with or without help. What can I do, what do I need to do now, where do I need help, where can I help.

But not “savior”

Explanation: It’s just that people looking for others to ‘save them’ – and their flip side – people going around trying to ‘save others’ drives me crazy.

~okay – my rants over ~

Moving along now …

[stilltrucking]

How about I say?
I sure would like to see an american woman elected president of the united states.

There are women all over the world that look to american women to for inspiration. And there are many Americas, North South and In between. So lighten up ok?

And I wish you would not take every thing I say personaly

rant ended lets move on.

Two American Women
Golda Meir and Emma Goldman
One was born here
The other was one of the huddled masses yearing to breathe free.

One turned away from the melting pot
she was on a journey to find the holy land

The other embraced her new home land
She had found the holy land in the new world

And then the United States government robbed her of lady liberty's precious promise. She wandered the world homeless, but cheerful, She died in Canada playing bridge with a few of her many friends. Finally years later the government if the United States relented and let her heart come home to wounded knee.

Where the hell is Emma Goldman when you need her?

spontaneous rant

[Diana Moon Glampers]

Dear Cat

I will talk about this with you until the cows come home. If that would help. My sister was 15 years old and I was almost 30 when we had these conversations. I put something on Cat House about
making myself transparent. I will dig up and post to it. As I said to WD I am very nervous about this string. What the hell am I doing here.

Before I go I wanted you to see this. I have that book by Steiner she is talking about. I have no idea what she meant by dishy. THe one line that comes to mind from it was "the blonde bitch" That is what the professor's wives at Smith called Plath..

This is from an interview with Lily Burana the author of Strip City.

Question: Have you ever wished that you’d been born a man?
Yes, certainly.]I don’t envy the male body, but I do envy the male prerogative.

Is that what you are getting at? Yeah its a man's world, and that has got to change. First thing I would like to see is more women in high political office. I would like to see a woman president. I only hope it will not be someone like Phyllis Schlafly.

It is culture cat not biology. I don't know what you are trying to prove with all the analogies to animals/
That answer stuck in my mind. I stumbled across the article while I was surfing for this Book.

Question: What is your most treasured book?
A Closer Look at Ariel: A Memory of Sylvia Plath by Nancy Hunter Steiner. Ms. Steiner was Plath’s roommate during Plath’s first semester back at Smith following her nervous breakdown. The book chronicles their friendship. It’s a rather rare book, at least in the US, and my mother, a librarian, found it for me in the used-book sale at the library in which she worked. The glimpse it gives into the ‘real life’ of Plath as a young woman is fascinating. And quite dishy, frankly.

http://www.virago.co.uk/virago/meet/bur ... CID=virago



PS don't even ask me about the user names.
Just cut me some slack please.

[mnaz]

It’s looking for someone to come and ‘save us’ … it’s the putting of that role upon someone as ‘the one’ that is a large part of the problems upon this earth at this time..... Change your line of thinking to self responsibility....

I basically agree with you on a more regional or local level. Such things as individual/group preparedness for natural disasters, or grass-roots activism in local politics, make sense, and are commendable.

World affairs are harder to figure, since control thereof is in the hands of only a few individuals who have sweeping power and influence much much greater than it seems any patchwork of 'grass-roots' campaigns might influence to a significant degree, outside of armed resistance. In this sense, one would hope that our most powerful leaders, whose actions determine the fate of millions, or even billions, would act in ways more conducive to the planet's overall welfare; i.e., "save us", if one wanted to put it that way.

But could our leaders stand up against the corporate mob? Perhaps women could make a difference; perhaps not. Note how Hillary Clinton has mostly fallen in line with Bushco's Iraq campaign. Could anyone stand up to the militarized juggernaut of greed, sold in various self-righteous packages of "Ism"?

WW1 begat WW2 begat the Cold War begat the Corporate wars; but they're all corporate wars in a sense, really, fought for anticipated big profits. Europe has a long history of murderous warfare almost for "sport"-- various countries marching back and forth, slaughtering each other. This pattern led into WW1; a war many consider the most needless and tragic of them all. And the inequities and injustice of WW1's aftermath fueled WW2. By the time WW2 ended, nuclear weapons had emerged, and I think Europeans finally figured that the game was pretty much up: the next time they played, it might destroy everything....

But WW2 started a chain reaction of global conflict which shows no signs of stopping; a conflict billed as a noble struggle of ideologies, but in fact fueled by competing expansionist economic/corporate interests. I know flag-waving patriots don't want to hear this, but savage oppression and exploitation of so-called "third-world nations by BOTH superpowers and their allies in the Cold War did large amounts of unseen damage; damage which has begun to manifest itself in such things as international terrorism. I mean, what is terrorism anyway? The CIA has employed terrorist tactics for decades. Hell, the CIA armed and trained bin Laden and his ilk.

In short, a person, man or woman, who would lead the good people of the world in a wise and healing way, is up against some formidible obstacles and destructive inertia.

[stilltrucking]

The Grass Roots work has been done.




http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/bi ... ex=M000702

I love you Barbara.

Grass roots? I remember her from the sixties. Working to organize her neighborhood. That Charm City that wireman writes about is due to her efforts. So many programs she started. She should be the one getting the ink. But she ain’t pretty in pink. So forget about it..

[mnaz]

She should be the one getting the ink. But she ain’t pretty in pink. So forget about it..

Good point. That's the other problem; the whole image-over-substance nature of our election process (male or female, I suppose).... do you look and sound "Presidential", and the transparent "sound-bite" wars, etc.

Hmmm.....Barbara..... Well, she voted against the Iraq resolution. That's a step in the right direction-- no blank check to the trigger-happy mob, at least. Don't know much about her, though.

[stilltrucking]

I forgot to mention that I thought your post above was a model of clarity. I agree with it.
Well done.

I think about the phrase, "The enemy of our enemy is our friend." Sadam Hussein is our friend, the Taliban are our friends. And so on. We are not very loyal to our friends are we?
I think about the deal in the fifties when the CIA over threw the legitimate democratically elected government of Iran to restore the Shah.

I remember when Hillary made her speech after the Monica affair, standing by her man. And some women were wringing their hands in anguish because she had to wear a pink dress.

The biggest issue for me these days is the Christian Zionists. They give their zombies marching orders and they vote in a block that is hard to beat. I am pretty dumb about women. Cat talking about biological imperatives. Do you think women will be more susceptable to the fear factor. What part did the security mom vote play in the last election. I am thinking about the word "Reify" is there even such a thing as a security mom?

[mnaz]

Yes. The militarized "Isms". Since WW2, it hasn't been only Communism vs. Capitalism. Runaway global corporatism now seems more a threat than ever, to me. And religious fundamentalism has always figured in the mix as well; increasingly dangerous due to religion's growing numbers and influence, and due to the "end-times" (final "war-of-civilizations"), or "holy land", or "martyr" doctrines of its most extreme, or hard-line adherents. Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed were long ago buried under the weight of the top-heavy churches they inspired, and left in the dust by the zealots, it would seem.

[stilltrucking]

mnaz

I am trying to deal with this statement

I pondered the amassing of power by men, and the historical results of men corrupted by power. It has been the downfall of so much, and has caused the brutal death of so many.

When women are more fairly represented in congress, in state legislatures, at every level of government I think the Militarianism will be less a factor. What I should have said above was unless women save themselves we are all doomed. My choice of words was poor.


I tend to romanticize women. Unfamiliarity breed’s idolatry I suppose. I suppose women are capable of all the errors men make.

The world always makes the assumption that the exposure of an error is identical with the discovery of truth—that the error and truth are simply opposite. They are nothing of the sort. What the world turns to, when it is cured on one error, is usually simply another error, and maybe one worse than the first one

.
H. L.Mencken

Vonnegut loathes mankind, I loathe men. We have become our own worst enemies.

I cannot get my mind around these immortal beings called corporations. They have so many more rights than mere people. The solution may be that every man woman and child incorporates themselves. Overwhelm the system.

Seriously, did you know that women in Switzerland did not get the vote until 1972?

It will all work out, I been wondering about "souls” There are more people alive today then have ever existed in all of history. If you added up every person who was ever born and died, the total alive at this moment is greater. So if souls are reborn, heave we exhausted the supply yet. I have no idea, maybe it all has to come crashing down and we dig ourselves out of the smoke and ash and say never again. Maybe we will build an ark spaceship and escape. Maybe the next asteroid won’t miss us,
The more I write about this the more I realize I need to see the wonderful Wizard and get a brain.

Meanwhile I would like to see a serious attempt by American women to take control of the government. Cause these dick heads we got now sure ain't doing a very good job.

WD I am sorry I woofed at you. You save yourself, and I will be better off. It is so rediculous for me to even write anything here. The more I write, the more I realize I know nothing. I go through the department store and there are about forty acres of women's clothes and shoes. About one acre of men's. There are shelves and shelves of cosmetics. Is that what this is all about?

I want to log in as Diana Moon Glampers because I feel to dumb to live. Sylvia Plath was a proto-feminist I have heard. She blew it. I suppose that is how I see myself, a proto-feminist. I don't know what political feminism is.
I think we need more women to step forward and run for office

Is that political feminism?

Phyllis Schlafly Was Right
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/ ... 2801.shtml

[whimsicaldeb]

I tend to romanticize women. Unfamiliarity breed’s idolatry I suppose. I suppose women are capable of all the errors men make. - ST

You suppose correctly. Absolutely women are capable of making the same errors, and then some – and that’s why Idolatry isn’t the answer, and doesn’t help.

The thing about putting someone, or a group of some ones, on a pedestal; romanticizing them (for too long/too much), making them your idol, hero, savior, rescuer, instead of seeing them as they really are warts & all… it’s a false image, and the ‘image’ is going to fail you – and if they believe their own false image; fail themselves as well. Plus, it hurts; it’s one long painful drop back down to earth (reality) again.

That's why I say ... don't take those roles unto yourself, or put them unto any one – because it hurts, you, them, everyone.

When you have this type of false images in our leaders .... well, you already know where that's taking us.

We are, all of us after all, only human and that means fallible. Not perfect – and that’s okay, as it should be (and imo that’s by design as well …)

Plus, we need each other (and again, imo, that's by design)… we need each others eyes, ways of seeing things because we can’t get that 3D effect (life JB is doing with his photos) without seeing it one way and then another seeing it ‘just a bit different.’ But it’s got to be real, not fake … for it to work.

Men only can’t do it as a group – and that’s ditto for women as well. If you switch one group out for another all you’ve done is changed the tone - the surface - of the problem, but not the problem itself.

It’s about working together/with, not lording over – and that’s the same for men and women & women and men.

WD I am sorry I woofed at you. You save yourself, and I will be better off. It is so rediculous for me to even write anything here. The more I write, the more I realize I know nothing. I go through the department store and there are about forty acres of women's clothes and shoes. About one acre of men's. There are shelves and shelves of cosmetics. Is that what this is all about?

I want to log in as Diana Moon Glampers because I feel to dumb to live. Sylvia Plath was a proto-feminist I have heard. She blew it. I suppose that is how I see myself, a proto-feminist. I don't know what political feminism is.
I think we need more women to step forward and run for office

Is that political feminism?

ST ~ I find your lack confidence in yourself at times ends up over-shadowing all your good points, and writings.

Here ~ I'll show you what I mean ... this is you, without your lack of confidence ...

I go through the department store and there are about forty acres of women's clothes and shoes. About one acre of men's. There are shelves and shelves of cosmetics. Is that what this is all about?

Sylvia Plath was a proto-feminist I have heard. She blew it. I suppose that is how I see myself, a proto-feminist. I don't know what political feminism is.

I think we need more women to step forward and run for office

Is that political feminism?

See what I mean? That's beautiful! That's a poignant piece of writing and it's still all you. In addtion; I not only enjoyed reading it …it gets me thinking.

I know you don't appreciate my "barking" at you ... but ... I'm me, so ...

'woof woof!'

[judih]

smothering laughter, enjoying discussion, wishing i was a fairy dusting magic spell-her.

but alas, we are who we are. i am who i am, and saving is a very difficult mission in life.

how about, opening eyes - doing what's required. That's enough for today.

j

[whimsicaldeb]

Hi J ... thank you for the kind words. I know I can be .... well, me. In all my (umm...) glories!
~lol~

Perhaps my barking won't be too distrubing, this time around.

I came back because something I wrote here, I realized afterwards, I was thinking of e-dog's comment when I wrote it. So, I'm off to post it there.

He's another one that makes me 'think' ~ and you know how I love thinking!

[whimsicaldeb]

Phyllis Schlafly Was Right
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/ ... 2801.shtml

Interesting article ST, thank you for sharing it. Here's some of the highlights I saw, with my comments to follow:

1) She [Phyllis Schlafly] argued that a federal Equal Rights Amendment was not necessary, claiming that, "the fact is that women already enjoy every constitutional right that men enjoy and have enjoyed equal employment opportunity since 1964."

2) While explaining why the big push for the federal Equal Rights Amendment ultimately failed, in her book Feminist Fantasies Schlafly reprinted some of her old objections: "ERA would put 'gay rights' into the U.S. Constitution because the word in the amendment is 'sex,' not 'women.' Eminent authorities have stated that ERA would legalize the granting of marriage licenses to same-sex couples and generally implement the gay and lesbian agenda."

3) Agree or disagree with her politics, Phyllis Schlafly was right — the Hawaii supreme court was the first, in 1993, to rule that its state ERA mandated same-sex marriage.

4) ... the late feminist mother Betty Friedan angrily declared, "I consider you a traitor to your sex, an Aunt Tom." Friedan said that she wanted to burn Schlafly at the stake. For Schlafly, Friedan's fury came in handy. As Donald T. Critchlow recalls in Phyllis Schlafly and Grassroots Conservatism, Schlafly replied, "I'm glad you said that because it just shows the intemperate nature of proponents of the ERA."

5) Nowadays, Eagle Forum is content that the Equal Rights Amendment is dead as a viable national movement, despite Ted Kennedy's hopes (the ERA is his bill in the Senate) for its revival. Now Schlafly & Co. are more specifically concerned with protecting marriage — in part from the damage done by state ERAs.

First off, with quote no. 1 - The facts don't support her suppositions. Consistently reports show that women overall are still being paid less than men in work done in the same jobs/fields. Things have improved, but there is still inequity. Those are the facts. However, she can believe whatever she wishes – even if her beliefs are not supported by facts. That does not mean that we shouldn’t continue to point out the facts to her … or know the facts ourselves. Just be aware that she’ll most likely be inclined to ignore these facts for as long as possible in favor of supporting her beliefs.

For quote no. 2; she’s absolutely right. And for those of us with loved ones and relatives living alternative lifestyles because they are other than hetro; and for those whose sexual persuasion is other than hetro, this is a wonderful thing – a good thing, and not a mistake or problem. However; for those who “believe” as Schlafly, that this is an impure lifestyle, I can understand how it would be most offensive to them, and why they’d fight so hard. And quote no. 3 just shows how Schlafly’s worst fears have manifested, and I'm sorry that this scares and angers her. None the less, I support the states and the ERA, and I want even more.

And it’s interesting that in quote No. 5 – they’re showing they believe it’s all over & done with. But I question that. Is it really dead, or just dormant? Are there facts supporting their beliefs? To me, the facts – the state ratified ERA’s – are showing/saying the opposite … but will that hold, and that’s what’s being decided now. So this is why looking at their beliefs is important. If we are going to have these advances in fact stay – we have to know where they stand and than be able to talk with them about why we consistently and determinedly disagree, and then support our position on facts … not emotionalism. Which brings me back to quote No. 4:

… “Friedan's fury came in handy” … Schlafly was able to use it against her. That’s important to know. Because that’s how she (they) won the last time. For us to succeed, we have to stop giving her, and all these people, the ammunition they use against us!

Speaking for myself, personally – sometimes, when your heart is so “passionately” into things … staying calm in 'the face of' is the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do in my own life … and sometimes, I just can’t. And that’s where others who can be strong of heart, but emotional (the true diplomats) are most valuable.

Because I have seen the successfulness, the effectiveness of the results received from the consistent presenting of the facts in a calm matter, over & over again. It works, because it takes away their ammunition, that so willingly use against us … out of fear, and lack of knowledge.

So thank you again, ST – for sharing that link. Most helpful.