Ban on Most Abortions Advances in South Dakota

[stilltrucking]

As for experience who has time enough for that

well i am done, obviously you don't know what you are talking about. This all fun and games to you, connecting dots and making a lot of sense. Call me back when you have put a woman in an untenable situation. made her make a Sophie's Choice


go ahead you got the front door cause I got nothing more to say.

[firsty]

sophie's choice where she was forced to kill one child to save the other? how is abortion saving another actual child?

seems the sophie's choice here is: do i kill one child in order to make my life easier?

do you realize what it means to say that life begins at delivery? HIPA laws are such that the unborn child isnt an entity until it's born. so if dad and mom are estranged during pregnancy, the father cant get information about the unborn child because the unborn child doesnt exist - the unborn child is simply a medical condition of the mother.

ah, yes, women the fragile gender. dare not tread. lets not think of those things. actually i think the position that men shouldnt tread where women feel their rights are gender-driven is sort of sexist. havent women come far enough that their lives can be discussed in an open manner? or are they merely to be protected and not challenged?

[stilltrucking]

its ok firsty I dig your poetry

I got nothing more to say.

nothing abstract or intellectual for me

abortions are like getting hit with a mack truck

where is your compassion?

[firsty]

where is my compassion?

why you gotta be like that? my compassion is with life. all life. i have compassion for men, compassion for women. all women. i have compassion for nations and compassion for cultures, compassion for religion (well, maybe not compassion for religion). compassion for sinners and saints.

wheres your compassion for tiny babies? do you think most abortions are performed on women because they were raped or abused?

i think most abortions are an oops. i think most abortions are the result of a mistake in judgment or, more likely, the lack of judgment. so there. so just because the rallying cry is that women want to have control over their bodies, i think it's being misused. it's a nice rallying cry, to be sure. it's strong and it serves to negate objections because who would be such a villian to say that someone shouldnt control their own body? of course they should. but that argument is facile even as much as it's powerful.

every time this shit comes up, prochoice advocates say that the bad guys arent making exceptions for rape or incest. but thats not why most abortions are being performed. so why dont prochoice advocates support laws that provide for rape/incest abortions? because - wait, it's not about that any more. it's about a woman's right to choose. which is it? because when it gets down to it, they have to keep the issue as one of power - rape and incest. but what they really mean is right to choose - enabling the woman's power iin this over everything, even over immature lives.

roe v wade, if it goes down, will go down not on politics, but on the strength of its argument. namely, that it didnt justify abortion, it simply put the power to the states. this made it a political issue, and "right to choose", making abortion a "right," makes it a political liability to oppose. the fact is, roe v wade doesnt stand as a moral argument, just on a political rights argument. and not, as many would hope, as a personal rights argument. rather, a states rights argument. if prochoice advocates want to hold onto roe v wade, theyre going to need to validate it on its moral merits. personally, i dont think they can do that. because of the reasons i already stated.

that said, it would be a nitemare if states started outlawing abortions like they seem to want to do. many women would die needlessly or be irreperably harmed. if it's better to die in a back alley than raise a child, then thats another choice women will have to make. to the extent that male power is to blame, male power is a villian. to the extent that male and female mistakes are to blame, lets hope we can deal with that and not blow this up into something it's not, which is some suppression of women's rights.

[stilltrucking]

ok

[stilltrucking]

ok

[Doreen Peri]

Years ago, I had to have one. I wish I didn't, but I did.
I hated to do it.

I still cry about it sometimes.

But I am so glad that I had the choice because otherwise, I would have brought a child into the world with a drug addicted mother without the resources to give the child a proper home, food, clothing and healthcare.

And guess what? I used birth control, too.

I wrote a poem about it once... "lost children dead".. a really depressing piece. I'll spare you. I won't post it.

[abstroint]

Women’s rights ARE one of the issues. A fetus can not be sustained without a woman’s body to live. It is a women’s rights issue, an unwanted fetus is using another already living persons body to sustain itself, a woman’s body, not a mans body, without it, the fetus is dead, not yet a life.

A woman can not live without food, nor can a man. The world is already overpopulated. The planet does not have an unlimited supply to meet the demand of humans who have done too good a job procreating. Long before the pill became available women from ancient cultures were using contraceptive measures, though not a good as those we have today, they tried for the sake of their people and the issues of overpopulation limiting the resources for all to control overpopulation.

Add to our already overpopulated world the 1.2 million yearly that are aborted, multiply all the children they will have had, oh and, you can soon add the aborted pregnancies that will be due to pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions for contraceptives. Who realistically will end up taking care of all the lives that will form? WOMEN! This is a women’s issue. Don’t forget that these 1.2 million children were unwanted, or their parents were unable to take care of them, so, most of these children will have lived their childhood years somewhere in whatever system was created to take care of them, because only 127,000 children are adopted annually. What does that world look like? Anything left to sustain human life at all in the next half a century? Seriously, I think that abortion numbers would have been a bit less if abortion were illegal, closer to the number of abortions the year abortion was legalized, 774,600. Even if we subtract the possible hundreds of thousands that might not have occurred due to abortion being illegal that still isn’t covered by the adoption rate. Women would have even been giving a lot less head, possibly considering never giving it, because a woman wouldn’t want to give a guy the wrong impression (she might find herself getting raped) and end up in a back alley somewhere bleeding to death. The thought of dying in an alley will cause serious frigidity. If things keep going in the direction they have been in the last few years, to the right, good luck getting even a good tongue kiss in few more years boys. It’s a human rights thing, not just a women’s rights thing. The reason it is referred to as a just a woman’s right is because the woman is the one who will have to turn those cells into a life, not the boys who can’t seem to grow the balls it would take to admit that feminist isn’t a dirty word.

The biggest issue is still overpopulation. Starvation may not be avoidable. Maybe we can all be martyrs one day and die for the cause of pro-life.

[abstroint]

• 54% of women having an abortion said they used some form of contraception during the month they became pregnant.

[firsty]

aw, abstroint, thas cute. feminism IS a dirty word. not like girls or ladies or women. women are great. feminism tho is often extremist politics, and most people who call themselves feminists really arent, or at least there is a large gap between the feminist platforms and people who call themselves feminists. when i talk about feminism, i mean feminist politics, not a social movement.

there are many solutions to overpopulation. enabling irresponsible orgasms by legalizing abortion wasnt necessarily the best way to go. not that it was the worst way to go. but here we are with another explanation for abortion. now we have rape and incest, then we have a woman's right to choose, now we have overpopulation. are you sure that adoption wouldnt cover those aborted children? it seems surprising to me that it wouldnt, seeing as in a supply and demand market, the costs of adoption are outrageous. this would imply to me that there is a shortage of supply and an excess of demand.

and i'm pretty sure your argument isnt that we need to provide the option for abortions so that women can give head as foreplay instead of simply the sex act itself. if you're saying that abortion rights enable men to be weak and avoid parenthood, thats not a very good argument either, particularly when there are so many laws that expressly allow a woman to have an abortion without even notifying the father.

it's fun to think that men opposed to abortions dont have balls, or are misogynists or something, wanting to maintain control, overpowering women, etc., that whole insistence that it's a woman's right to have an abortion. you say it is, i say it isnt. we have a stalemate there. rights are tricky things, and, yes, the way our system has set it up is that a fetus isnt a life until it's born. that something magical happens upon popping out that gives it the right to life that other air-breathing humans have. an unborn child may depend on the mother to live, that doesnt mean that the mother owns that life from a moral standpoint. without me, my 2 yr old would die, too. see how much fun semantics are?

[firsty]

that contraception isnt perfect is a pretty widely-known fact. consequence of it not working: pregnancy. people need to weigh risks and rewards. with risk comes the chance that something might happen that isnt desired. thats the definition of risk. also, almost half, then, of women getting abortions didnt use contraception. that sounds like post-conception contraception to me.

[firsty]

just think of how much worse overpopulation would be if the genocides of the last 70 years hadnt occured. therefore - genocide is good?

[abstroint]

What's even cuter firsty is how you like to put words into other peoples mouths. I was wondering firsty if it would be ok with you if others were allowed to make a point on the matter without being attacked by you. This isn't the courtroom in which the issue will be decided, so you don't have to try and discredit every witness.

[firsty]

yikes. sorry. i honestly didnt mean to put words in your mouth or if i was speaking for anyone else, i apologize. i was merely countering your post. i was doing it snarkily because it's annoying when people who disagree with feminists as a group are declared to have no balls. thats the only reason for my tone.

[e_dog]

as difficult as it is to follow and grasp firsty's finely discerning logic -- for example

"when i talk about feminism, i mean feminist politics, not a social movement."

--
i find that his overall perspective is flawed in that like all pro-life positions it underestimates the burdens imposed on the woman and indeed the outrageous amount of state power that exists when the state is granted the authority to ban abortion i.e. to compell a woman to carry an unwanted fetus and to give birth. this is even more odious than a population management policy like that of China designed to limit births; banning abortion essentially converts women into breeding machines on behalf of the religious morality of others.

whether a fetus is a life or not is indeterminate and at any rate is irrelevant. women are not slaves condemned to sacrifice themselves for the sake of babies.

i wonder whether anti-abortion proponents would support a law that applied only to men and required them to 'donate' kidneys to save the lives of others (whether strangers or family it doesn't matter)?

"it's fun to think that men opposed to abortions dont have balls, or are misogynists or something, wanting to maintain control, overpowering women, etc., that whole insistence that it's a woman's right to have an abortion. you say it is, i say it isnt. we have a stalemate there. rights are tricky things, and, yes, the way our system has set it up is that a fetus isnt a life until it's born."