True American Military Hero

[e_dog]

is that not women's rights rather than pacifism?

what about congressmen saying 'i'm too old to fight, so i won't send the young!" ?

[jimboloco]

well it's true
i ain't no pacifist nei·ther
selective conscientious objection was once proposed as a bill
by the oakland congressman ron dellums
an most if not all of the in-service current war resisters are of that ilk

i initially wrote (will have to dig it up and scan it)
something like
all warsare evil
but when i tendered my resignation
i said
i was not against al wars
i was in favor of wars of social revolution and liberation
like the american revolution
an the vietnamese revolution
mercy that got me out fast,
but doing the c.o. gig is the way
an whatever one says
it's bettern being cannon fodder for the
friggin wealthy schmucks who dine on our blood.

[e_dog]

"i was not against al wars
i was in favor of wars of social revolution and liberation
like the american revolution
an the vietnamese revolution
mercy that got me out fast [...]"

how'd you avoid prison?

there an intriguing quote attributed to Abbie Hoffman in a photography book published a few years ago called something like 'the '60s' or 'Hippie' or something in which he says something like "I'm not anti-War; I'm for the Vietcong winning the war." or something to that effect.

now, that was a radical statement. i mean, the view is a quite simple deduction from the principles of anticolonialism and democracy as self-determination of peoples, but to say so to the media is rather bold.

the same simple deduction cannot be made in the current imperial war, since the alternative of Islamic fundamentalism is not really democratic; but still, it must be asserted again and again that Bush's imperial war is the exact opposite of what it claims to be -- i.e. imperial aggression cannot equal democratic freedom.

[jimboloco]

yeah i felt a lot better about uncle ho than about the wannabe muhhahhadeen yet our posturing about like this is is what it is, man, a tempest in z't pot, man. Dig?

about the getting out biz
This whole matter has been a source of both guilt and pride, i essentially refused duty, being very wiley in manufacturing a step by step process in getting out
certainly not linear by any means
a crooked and swerving course to get out

I declared conscientious objection in Jan, 72, got grounded and sent to next base of assignment. I was training to fly KC-135 tankers out in California and from there was to fly in a tanker squadron up in New Hampshire, air refueling a squadron of F-111B nuke bombers, all for detente, except that we also would go back to southeast Asia on temp duty, TDY, for 6 months at a wop to lounge around at either U-Tapao in Thailand or on Okinawa, flying refueling patterns for all sort of armament aircraft dropping and strafing in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia. I not only wanted out of that scenario, but also wanted out of the macho rightwing American military fascist culture. Shit I'll havta write a snippet about it/\

I had submitted the co dc request in Feb, 72, and waited and waited, mercy,
i had recused my self from alternate assignments, was on call only, and rarely, stayed off base mostly, was into the VVAW activities, then depression set in, i got away from my local freinds group, isolated, fearful, having migraines, acutely aware of what id done, mercy
contact with family absolutely shattered.
contact with former skin slithered
tho i didnt fathom the hard road i was to travel as things unravelled,
too cool,

i had to counsel with the commander and the chaplain, i saw their dubious rationalles, mercy,
i wanted to fly,
shit,
grounded,
i told them i was tired of waiting,
dc'd the co app
tho had written letters signed by newhampshirian senator
mercy,
he turned against th war
voted to end it
i had this letter from him still
somewhere in file 13
mercy
had been hanging out with a felow airman,
akid who refused duty on that base,
had gone awol one time
etc, he was antiwar
i'd meet him at a snackbar on base for lunch
i had taken off my wings and ribbons, just a plain uniform
with silver bars and nametag
and this dude had his airman's uniform,
it was against regs for occifurrs and airmansto fraternise
so it was rebellious
whatever
he got a bad dc
weall took him to th airport to board th plane fer california
adios
that's gonna go into th snippet

I cancelled my co discharge in June, 72,
unnerved and irresolute
emasculated
i went to th base chapel, snuck in th back door,
read from psalms
knew i was gonna go ahead and get out
went to th sarge
he told me about th anti-war-occifurrs clause,
resign and get either a general or honorable discharge
an administrative dc
shit, thhats when i writ that note
about wars of social revolution and liberation,
man
some call it grace
it wouldn't happen today
not at all
the Americano militarios are merciless in opposing any anti-war actions as this, but also thhe support networks have gotten much stronger.
When I declared co, I knew no one
had tried before to get contacts
no local quack quackers knew,
i went to sausalito
found this book
handbook for co's in th militario
called th ccco
went t see them in san fransisco
got a contact in nh where they gave me a name
lydia willits
so i met her in Feb 72
quacking quaker lady
what a sweetheart
mercy i loved her
she passed in 1980 of lung cancer
she smoked parliaments
i knew the local vvaw fellowship
so had connects
sure
but i faltered
i became anti-social
alone
the last days in the air farce
i had driven up north
into a mountainous alpine like country
stayed at a motel alongside the road, old wood cabins,
by a drop off on th mountainside,
lovely forest
june warmth
cool rushing streams
i got called back to get out
signed the papers and that was that
had orders not to come back
mercy
went to the antiwar club
seacoast peoples military and draft counseling center
took off the uniform left it all right thhere
on the clothes rack they had just for that purpose
free at last
mercy







http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/article/?id=593

We keep hearing from the Republicans how noble this war in Iraq is, and how necessary it is for public safety. If it's so noble, why is there no Bush family member serving there—or two, or twenty? How come other people's sons and daughters are supposed to make Iraq safe for democracy? The Bush family are never even asked why their kids and relatives aren't in harm's way.

Hell, Baby Bush even has twins; he could sacrifice one for the cause. If she were killed, they would still have one who looked exactly like the other, so they wouldn't miss her so much. And if she were blown up, they'd have a model for the plastic surgeons to consult while remaking her face. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

And hell, Brother Jeb in Florida has a whole passel of kids. Shit! They are taking forty- and fifty-year-olds and drug addicts, so his drug-user daughter could join the Marines; might even make a man out of her. Really, there have got to be thirty or forty in the Bush family alone available for combat.

Along comes Hillary Clinton, hitting Bush from the right on Iran. Well, goddamn it, she's got a daughter too. Don't be a hypocrite, Hillary. Give up your child in time for the next election.

On a similar note, remember Abu Ghraib? A nineteen-year-old woman—yes, a teenager—dog leash in hand, got blamed for torture. She came back to the good old USA pregnant, and is now in military prison.

Compare her fate with that of a chief warrant officer, an older male (probably a lifer). He tortured to death an Iraqi prisoner of war. He got a letter of reprimand and no jail time, and he's back at work as an interrogator.

Believe what they do, not what they say.

Well, Bush is now down to a 27% approval rating, and the press and Congress act like he's not a lame duck. The problem is that he's in charge, with his finger on the nukes. And he's thinking Iran must be next, because God talks to him. Nixon, at this point in his presidency, was talking to paintings of Lincoln and praying to God, not talking to God. These are dangerous times, as Seymour Hersh points out in the New Yorker.

[stilltrucking]

Kafka, in discussing Georg Trakl's suicide during World War I, said of the poet, "He had too much imagination. So he could not endure the war, which rose above all from a monstrous lack of imagination."

http://www.greeninteger.com/review_deta ... eviewID=19


No to war,
No to all wars
especially the american revolution
We could have been Canada now


Jim we got stop this real politik bullshit. Wars begat wars. There is no end to it. I am too old for this discussion.

Rove: Republicans Should Address Iraq War

Tuesday June 13, 2006 1:46 AM
AP Photo NHJC103
By NORMA LOVE
Associated Press Writer
MANCHESTER, N.H. (AP) - White House adviser Karl Rove said Monday that Republicans facing midterm elections should campaign on the economy's strength and discuss the war in Iraq with no qualms.
``We have no excuses to make for it,'' Rove said during a fundraising dinner for New Hampshire Republicans. War supporters need not apologize for removing the threat of Saddam Hussein, and with so much work left to do, now is not the time to talk about leaving Iraq, he said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/stor ... 82,00.html

[Arcadia]

i was not against al wars
"i was in favor of wars of social revolution and liberation
like the american revolution
an the vietnamese revolution
mercy that got me out fast,
but doing the c.o. gig is the way
an whatever one says
it's bettern being cannon fodder for the
friggin wealthy schmucks who dine on our blood."


as a last chance, yes (maybe we'll be an english or spanish explicit colonia at this moment if the BA ressistance against the brits during 1805/1807 and the independence war didn't exist...). But ... poor Cabral and his heroism.. I wish things were different...

[e_dog]

Stilltruckin,

thanks for the link to the Kafka and Trakl page.

that's an awesome image by the way -- is that really George Bush II? when exactly was that taken?

No to war,
No to all wars
especially the american revolution
We could have been Canada now

what is intrinsically wrong with wars of liberation? the American Revolution is a bad case, because it probably resulted in the prolongation of slavery in America. maybe not, but is it possible that the Brits would have outlawed it sooner? does anyone know the history in the other Brit colonies on this matter?

But Surely the Jewish resistance to Romans in the ancient world, and the popular anti-fascist resistance in the 1930s and '40s are instances of justified use of violence. of course these are instances where someone else started the war or violence, of course, but that doesn't mean there are no justified wars, precisely self-defence and resistance to oppression is morally justified. the Vietnamese revolution is (an imperfect) example of justified violence against colonial oppressors (French) and imperial aggressors (U.S. intervention).

In WWII, The U.S. and allies's war against the Nazis was just. that against the Japanese, more ambiguous -- a case of one imperialist against another. in that Pacific theatre, it was like WWI with bigger weapons and larger spaces.

With all respect to Kafka, Georg Trakl's problem was not that his imagination was too great, but that his perception was too keen. he saw reality for what it was and is -- a horrible looming catastrophe, and for that he was considered insane and resorted to drugs to dull the pain of living.







[/quote]

[stilltrucking]

I don’t want to look back. Maybe those who remember the past are doomed to repeat it.

Are there any good wars going on today?

I am speaking for myself. I reject war. I don’t care about what has happened in the past..

Hear me, my chiefs. I am tired. My heart is sick and sad. From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.

Chief Joseph

[e_dog]

we are past the point in technological development at which a war of violence could be useful or effective in stopping oppression and not a ctually bringing about more violence. so, yeah, i'm all for nonviolence myself. but the memory of the past is essential. proper understanding of history is necessary for the present to make any sense and for the future to be conceivable at all. i suspect you secretly agree with that, otherwise you wouldn't quote so many dead wise men.

if there is no consciousness of past resistance to oppression, present forms of resistance have no basis for inspiration. even nonviolent forms of struggle can learn a thing or two from violent struggle. that's not even a radical idea, otherwise the veneration of Geo. Washington would be a rather different thing from what it is. Jefferson said that every few generations a revolution was necessary. this is probably true, but not true if taken to mean that every other generation should be massacre one another.

[stilltrucking]

Rationale

I suppose I am just tired of how we look at the past to rationalize war. You can pick one war out of the stream of wars and say this was a just war. But in reality they are interconnected. You could trace World War 2 to its roots in WW1, which had its roots in the Franco-Prussian war. It just seems like a never-ending stream not isolated events. I suppose Margaret Thatcher makes me wonder if matriarchy is the answer. I think if women were more fairly represented in government things might me better. But then there is that bimbo congresswoman who called Murtha a coward. And also that Nazi bitch Phyllis Schlafly.

[Dave The Dov]

Man or women if they march off to war. You know what direction they are going.
_________________
Honda CBR900RR

[the flaming ace]

yah
after the dutch took manhattan
an th vikingz had a toe hold on delaware,
nice big little stream there.,
plenty good fishing, trading with th locals,
why not stake a claim,
an th intrigue that set inn
with tribes against tribes and natural long standing inter tribal animosities setting inn
as th brits drove wedges everywherez
th algonquinz was sweet
th mohawkz was mad dogs on th lacrosse field
mercy coulda beat duke handz down
an then th french&indian warz
all against th brits an th yankees
an then th amerikant war of revolution
yankee doodle dandy
an th war of 1812
Well, in eighteen and fourteen we took a little trip
along with Colonel Jackson down the mighty Mississip.
We took a little bacon and we took a little beans,
And we caught the bloody British near the town of New Orleans.
an th texican-mexican war
after th yeller roze of texass got santaana ta drop his drawerz
an he got caught by uncle sam houzton wid hiz pantz down
at san jacinto,
an th stupidistofthemall, th onholy civilwar,
shit, let'mm seceeede,
fre kerizt allmighty
an th indian wars out west
beyond th trailz of tearzzz
it'z a good day ta die,
an th spanish-american warz
in cuba we allied ourselves militarily with martiii'zz poetic campesinos,
but once in power, employed the entire former spanish colonial infrastructure,
disregarding the popular cuban revolutionarios,
and in the phillipines th us marines
and army i suppoze fought the Huks
dig that name,
we slaughtered 200,000
oh yeah, now the phillippines is
a best buddy
to th USofA
an th first world war
Dulce et Decorum est
led to barnstorming an more follies
an th ccc was a good thing
but some of those guys on the public works programs
joined th lincoln brigades an fought in th spanish civil muck, after th germans struck at guernica,
an fought on thru th entire spanish civil war, then fought in eurpoe in the amerikant army,
then came home an joined the union movements
i heard one once talk about it
will have ta email roberto the dj talk rapper
anyhow
moron this later,
hoot!
oh yeah lost me train of thought
an the second world war
exactly so in the pacifico
japan sae hizzelf, the emporer-san,
as the liberator of azia from the european and american imperialists.
an became one,
togo a gogo,
pearl harbour, our jewel in th pacific,
was taken by force from the hawaiiianz,
so what th hay,
an oh korea
an oh uncle ho
well some say ah so,
an th unwritten litany of dirtylittlewarz
gun runners an hired thugs
fer economic hit men
mercy
shit if i was good ol trakl
i'd headed fer da hillz
to swizzland
shore nuff

http://www.malu-aina.org/

[jimboloco]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina#History
Indians from Rio de la Plata. From the journal of the voyage of Hendrick Ottsen, 1603.
it must be nice to live somewhere'z not at the center of a megalomaniacal madhouse,
like in argentina, amigas
iz that you, arcadia?

[stilltrucking]

"Fifty four forty or fight. "

I went to a motorcycle safety class this weekend. Met a first sergeant who has twenty years in. He is a medic, looked like a kid to me. He was in Iraq during the first war and he has done two tours so far in this one. He is planning on retiring. He has a new Harley Davidson on order. I asked him what if they stop lose you? He said "Sushhhhhhhhh" and smiled.

He was telling me about a new helmet that medics will or are using now. It has a built in camera and sound. A surgeon miles a way can see the patient and tell him what to look at and what to do. I asked him about the depleted uranium weapons during the first war and the radiation levels. He said they don't tell us about stuff like that, just look at Agent Orange.

This is all a gesture for me, but if I were forty years younger I would go to war only as a medic or a chaplain's assistant like Billy Pilgrim who carried nothing more dangerous than a pencil stub.

Spontaneous gibberish.
.

[jimboloco]

well, it's good that you could jibe wid th kid, already retired soon, mercy, wonder what'd have happenned if'n you'da told him he waz a hired gun for economic hit men.

Lt Watada oficially refused duty , breaking news
http://www.nonviolencenews.blogspot.com/

http://www.thankyoult.org/ is a national website set up to support the Lt, amigos y amigas.

“I refuse to be silent any longer. I refuse to be party to an illegal and immoral war against people who did nothing to deserve our aggression. My oath of office is to protect and defend America’s laws and its people. By refusing unlawful orders for an illegal war, I fulfill that oath today.”
- U.S. Army First Lt. Ehren Watada