uhm... just a rant about life and religion

[GordonWilson]

this is an email i wrote to a pal the other day... she'd written me a big epic update about life, and how in re-finding god she was finding a lot of happiness...

i didn't mean to burst her bubble, or rain on her parade, but her email made me launch into a big pedatic rant about comfort in life and religion...

i thought i'd share, just to hear your thoughts, if you felt like a small read about my philosophical feelings... bwah bwah bwah!

here is the bulk of the email i wrote:

so i loved your MASSIVE epic of an email! i am pleased to hear you've reached a new level of personal comfort... i tells ya, life is like that: the whole thing is about reaching personal epiphanies and going through different phases of acceptance. this world is pure madness! it's a big crazy question mark, and how we deal with the uncertainties of our lives, and how much we manage to find the beautiful things, and how we behave and react to the things that happen, is what the journey is all about... i love it sometimes, and i hate it sometimes, but i think you're in a good spot right now, realizing that at least "making the most" of it, and keeping a smile on your face, is often the most successful way to appease your soul and maintain your courage. i read a lot of kurt vonnegut, and today he was talking to me about it all being a big comedy, and that being able to make jokes of serious situations is how he has managed to lead a happy and successful life...

about eleven or twelve years ago now, i had the biggest personal
change of my life. i had a night that transformed everything for me... did i ever tell you about it? if not, you'll have to say so, because i'll send you a story where i wrote all about it... one major thing came out of it, in a nutshell: i realized that happiness was a result of confidence, kindness, and positivity... and that none of those things are simple, overnight concepts that you "receive" by any circumstances in life... they are qualities which we have to be ready to adopt into our lives, and we have to work hard to maintain them. so, by trickle down effect, i totally agree with what you've been affirming lately for yourself: happiness is a decision. for me, it's a daily decision, which has gotten easier and easier... life throws hurdles now and then which seek to impede my confidence, positivity, or kindness, and hitherto my happiness, but i am good about always reminding myself to get back on track... at the risk of sounding particularly blasphemous or arrogant, i've nearly convinced myself that these ideas are indeed the meaning of life.

you mentioned getting involved with your church, and that it has
created some happiness for you. that's great. in my eyes, a church
is just a big form of extended family, and that's essentially why it's
beneficial. we all need lots of support groups around us, to remind
us we're not alone in this big mystery...

however, the topic of religion is one that i could rant about for
hours and hours, over several essays. in fact, i've already written
quite a few. i tend to side with bill maher on the subject of
religion: it's fucked!

my mum was a nonpracticing roman catholic. my dad is a full-on
athiest, who told me when i was a kid and my mum was trying to send my brother and i to sunday school, "son, religion is for people who fear death". i think that stuck with me a bit. i became a religious cynic.

there are many ways that a person can learn about ethics and morality, and most religions are claiming to be the divine source of such education. they also deem to answer the questions which i don't think humanity's yet got the evolved intelligence, nor technology, to answer. the birth of every religion was to cool down the masses, and teach them not to be afraid of the unknown. every religion agrees: we must be kind to each other, respect the planet, don't kill, and generally try to acknowledge that there "might" be more going on than we know! then men took religion and fucked it all up and used it as a greedy profit machine. they tried to regiment faith, and created all sorts of metaphoric stories to give us examples of how we should behave, many of which the ignorant sheep took literally. in today's society, it's totally out of control. i will admit however, that SOME churches are evolving, and teaching about tolerance and education of other forms of faith. in my opinion, no child should be "told" that "this is the way it is"... i believe that in that particular incarnation, religion is the biggest example of human ignorance that is still rampant in the world today. i personally have studied loads of christian options, plus some islam, hindu, and tons of eastern philosophies like buddhism and taoism. most are so stupidly intolerant and ignorant toward each other, as to suggest that by some mysterious insistence, THEIR god is the real one. what a pile of
mallarky. religion has created more death and horror for humanity
than any other device. it has generated the most closed minded and arrogant species of human possible. at their core, many of the
world's leaders, in charge of militaries and economies, have vast
prejudices against each other because of their religious differences.
this infuriates me.

now don't get me wrong - i have a great love and tolerance of the
average church abiding citizen... cuz they don't think about all of
this. to most, it's just a haven where they feel safe and learn about ethics... i guess i just wish that people weren't taught to believe that they need to learn that stuff from only one source. it's my feeling that we all share the same internal ethical guideline in our lives, regardless of rearing or socialization or societal caste.

i like to believe that there's something more going on than just this
physical existence. i love movies like "phenomenon" and "powder". i love going to churches (sometimes) and listening to ministers prattle about christ's life. i like to feel as if i'm more important than these few decades i've been given. i like to dream that when my heart stops beating and my brain fizzles and my body rots into the ground (or gets disected by scientists, as is my wish), then by some miracle, the entity that is the true me, will continue, somehow. i dunno whether i'll become energy and move into another being, or transport to a different spot in the universe or another dimension, or whether i'll reincarnate here on earth, as a goat. whatever the case, i guess i hope for something. that makes me "agnostic". fair enough. i think my dad's a bit of a pessimistic loon for being an athiest! how dreary!

it's my religion to be a humanist; to believe that we all are our own
god and devil and creator and afterlife... i revel in not knowing the
answers to "what happens when i die" and "is there a higher power" and "what's the meaning of life". i don't think we should know the answers; i think the questions are the answer. hell, why not throw in "i wonder if we're alone in the universe", and "is magic real", and "can people communicate telepathically", and "what's the deal with all this ESP stuff?!?!?"... hahahaha. in fact, i am a regular candidate for particularly powerful "deja vu", where about every two weeks i have a wave of familiarity wash over me, and usually i can pinpoint knowing the scene, from a dream two weeks prior! how do ya like them apples?!?!? i like to buy into the PLAUSIBILITY of many things, like astrology, and extraterrestrial life, and god, or buddha, or allah, or whoever. but it's all just a bunch of plausible theories after all, so i prefer to just smirk and say, "why not?!?"

behaving ourselves is what we can choose to do in life. questioning the ills of our surroundings is how we stay sane, in my opinion. be positive and happy within your environment, but don't achieve it by being ignorant of the world around you... personally, i hate the damned ruling governments of the world, with their ignoring of environmental destruction, and global overpopulation, and rampant disease in other countries, and their bloody shortsighted greed. the economic and militaristic leaders of the world are rapidly making this planet inhospitable for our heirs. that fuckin sucks. i keep my sanity and my happiness by keeping it all in perspective. my arrogant attitude tells me that by writing stuff like this, and speaking out in the correct forums, and influencing all the people i meet with goodness and kindness, i'm doing my part. blah blah blah i guess by now i'm way off topic.

i sure appreciated your email. it gave me a chance to respond and wax philosophic for awhile! i hope this finds you with a big smile on! may the sun shine hotly on your back, the winter winds give you a crisp widening of your eyes and a tickle down your spine, and may you experience the glowing affections of the people around you.

[stilltrucking]

"son, religion is for people who fear death". i think that stuck with me a bit. i became a religious cynic.

i tells ya, life is like that: the whole thing is about reaching personal epiphanies and going through different phases of acceptance. this world is pure madness! it's a big crazy question mark, and how we deal with the uncertainties of our lives, and how much we manage to find the beautiful things, and how we behave and react to the things that happen, is what the journey is all about...

some fortunate few out on the tail ends of the bell curve have their ephanies when they are very young "the kid in the book nine stories"

maybe we all do but by some accident of childhood an adult takes cruel advantage of a child's love and the epiphanie is frozen out of his heart.

I been working on this statement by a young friend "religion is evil"

yas yas yas

but

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to be continued.

going to start my xmas shopping early this year, I already have my gift picked out for wireman my homeboy and Jimboloco too

I miss a haiku board to me they are gems snippets of epiphanies maybe.


I have only read you rant once and so far I love it, I will see how it goes on a couple more reads. I have been known to change my mind.

[GordonWilson]

nice to see you...

i too miss citizen army/izza/whoever else he was

perhaps he's still around here, somewhere... i couldn't keep up with everyone's name changes. bwah bwah bwah

"religion is evil" - curious how there are more and more supporters of that statement lately... i guess i can dig that at least SOME of the world's population is seeking to evolve religion, at the very least...

rockabilly,
g

[mtmynd]

Gordo - another interesting rant after reading your other one of the day.

I'm sure you are aware that your dad's saying, "religion is for people who fear death," is but one side of religion's duality. The other side of that is religion is a stepping stone across the stream of life to reach the other side. Many advocates of religion seemingly get stuck on one stone thus isolating themselves from the fullness of life, but that is another rant.

Religion can be viewed as a garden where each plant, each flower is but a creed or belief system. Take four strangers into the garden and have them pick their favorite flower and you have four people disagreeing over which flower is their favorite and why it is their favorite... not realizing the garden is the wholeness of religion. the fullness of fragrance from each and every flower.

Many a religious zealot holds their own flower to be the only valid color or fragrance, without having the foresight to include the garden in its entirety... with one gardener in charge of it all.

There are also those that love all the flowers so much that they forget about the soil that nourishes the plants, or those that ignore the cycles of the plants... bursting forth from the soil, reaching upwards to the sun, putting out their blooms to attract the buzz, to pass their seeds in an explosion of joyful splendor, before the exhausted plant passes to the compost pile.

Humanity is a myriad and diverse life form that has scattered its own seed worlwide. Each of us takes our energy to survive from this diversity in which we all live. Our need to find a common ground amongst ourselves identifies us with our families and friends... our accomplices in our social survival. Being uniquely mobile allows us as individuals to move across the street, across town, across the country or across the world in order to find our own place and environment to survive and multiply, either with offspring or ideas to spring forth from our chosen environs.

It is not the world which is mad but we humans, in our desperation to find fulfillment that drives each of us to the brink of our own personal madness, evolving towards our own potentialities. We are the newest of life forms on this planet and like children we have so far to go to attain our maturity as human beings. In the meantime we treat our one planet like our personal sandbox and nature as our toys.

Cecil

[perezoso]

An apt example of unfocused sentimentalism, though with a few decent points I guess. What most people can't seem to face is if that if any religious or theological view holds than the particular spiritual entities--Jehovah, Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Brahma ,etc.--- are responsible for the course of human history are they not.

If the Bible were true, and God is omnipotent, then God created history and natural disasters (not to say diseases, plagues, great white sharks, etc.) , knowing how it will turn out, and knowing what his creations--humans--will do with their "free will". Free will is thus sort of ludicrous since God knows what the outcome will be. Since the notion of an all-powerful (and LOVING as the Gut Book says) Being seems quite incompatible with any rational view of history (like WWI and WWII for starters), such a Being cannot exist, unless God = the Devil (not impossible). Proving the existence of an immaterial soul is also empirically unlikely if not impossible. We may still believe in objective ethics and read the BIble as a statement of ethics, and perhaps view the supernatural stuff as metaphorical, but any literal reading of and "faith" in any religion--traditional or pagan--is not only incorrect but sentimental and most likely malicious.

Prove me wrong.

[GordonWilson]

ya, i like the "free will" argument... i read a cool "new age" book by robert anton wilson called promethius rising a number of years ago that tackled that one... monty python's done it well, too.

"An apt example of unfocused sentimentalism / with a few decent points i guess"...

uh, gee, thanks, i guess?

i didn't claim that it was a worked-over essay for submition as my masters thesis or anything; i was just spouting some ideas in an email to a friend! ah well, debate away, if it makes ya happy!

[perezoso]

Bob Wilson of the Illuminati jass? Yeah I read some of his stuff back in the day and went to one of his seminars. He's amusing though not really a philosopher, more like New Age stand up comedian ; I don't share his enthusiasm for the Crowley-on-acid types of conspiracy theories, but I willadmit to chuckling at some of Discordian stuff though I think most of those cats were much more into the "Bring in the Bloody Goat" than in a rational critique of religion and ideology....... ( even Uncle Aleister, if full of crap mostly, has a few bon mots here and there, and his way with women, well is not without certain charms, though you probably would not have wanted to have gone mountain climbing with the Mage)

[GordonWilson]

heh, i've never read crowley, but used to enjoy listening to ozzy sing about him

with the "free will" debate, plato had some amazing thoughts too. i dug reading "the death of socrates" and "the republic" - he covered free will a bit in both of those.

[perezoso]

Ozzzy is a commoner and stooge compared to Uncle Al; even Page and Zeppelin, however bombastic and pretentious, did the Crowley vibe much more effectively. But Page and Co were too fucking stoopid. Ever seen a movie by Kenneth Anger? He was Crowley's successor. though he may be a tad too flamboyant and slightly well, effeminate for some....

I've read the Republic and some of the Dialogues; Platonism was in ways as irrational and mystical as X-tianity. The platonic soul, above nature, which perceives the Forms by divine reason, seemed to me a sort of weird abstraction which refuses to acknowledge our biological natures--we eat, we screw, we fight. Of course countless other philosophers and writers do that too. Descartes should not have said Cogito Ergo Sum, but perhaps Copula Ergo Sum. Crapula Ergo Sum?

[mtmynd]

Well. Bear... you said (in part) " the particular spiritual entities--Jehovah, Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Brahma ,etc.--- are responsible for the course of human history are they not." and I would answer, "Yes, they are in a very large part." Is not the current war in Iraq based primarily upon religious differences, i.e. the teachings/words of Mohammed versus Jesus, as one example? Governments are largely based upon some religious doctrines that drive their laws. It could be argued that the governmental atheism of the U.S.S.R. could be a prime reason in its demise. People survive with value systems of some type or another. It is our condition. Those rare individuals that do not have, (or have forsaken), any values at all live without reason or structure. They become threats to any social behavior and are soon disposed of.

You are making the same mistake as most good folks in stating that 'God' is "an all-powerful Being." The falacy of religion lies in the acceptance of "God" as a material Being that has a gender ('He'). Religion also falls prey to believing that "God" is a presence that only belongs to people... an egocentric viewpoint that denies the reality of all existence. We humans are but one tiny example of life that shares the universal spark of all life inherent with all living things, on our planet and beyond.

I agree that "any literal reading" is incorrect and indeed can certainly become malicious, depending upon the believer's faith towards such words. It is, afterall, words that are in question here, is that not right? The fundamentalists of any religion have proven that maliciousness, IMHO, although to varying degrees.

To prove in the existence of "God" or the hundred other words that attempt to define the "god-experience' is akin to describing your own orgasm, be it male or female. Even to prove "love" exists is a non-possiblity... even though some actions and words may attempt it, but to actual prove that love (or hatred, for that matter) exists is futile. These are 'essences', if you will, that have to be experienced by the receiver in order to 'prove' their existence. These 'essences of god' have been experienced by thousands of humans throughout our time here on earth and described in the best ways possible to reach their audiences. Still to this day, we humans have not evolved sufficiently to translate those 'godly experiences' through the limitations of our language. Our languages are limited to sensory reactions to our material surroundings either in actualities or thru metaphors using matter as substitutions.

[perezoso]

is not the current war in Iraq based primarily upon religious differences, i.e. the teachings/words of Mohammed versus Jesus, as one example?

They're both wrong, cub. If humans had been brought up with proper social conditioning and education (secular and biologically based) those ancient feudal battles would be eliminated.

"Governments are largely based upon some religious doctrines that drive their laws."

A bit of a generalization. The EU is not based on any particular religion nor is China or many others, including the US. The Constitution is secular through and through.

It could be argued that the governmental atheism of the U.S.S.R. could be a prime reason in its demise. People survive with value systems of some type or another. It is our condition. Those rare individuals that do not have, (or have forsaken), any values at all live without reason or structure.

I dont think that argument has any validity whatsoever. It is more like Gorbachev saw some of the shortcomings of the soviet model, and the Russian leaders made some drastic changes (though it is still largely socialist) but it was also pressure from capitalists and Reagan; and the mafia has done quite well from perestroika from what I hear.

Also you seem to equate "religions" to "values," not a valid identity. Many skeptics and even athiests were quite moral people; many theists and mystics are scumbags. One can believe in objective ethics and values without holding to any theological view.

[mtmynd]

They may both be wrong, but what is wrong is the interpretation of the words of both Mo' and J... what you deem proper is but an extension of early relgious doctrines.

You state the EU, altho most of its members are historically X-tians which, IMHO, has done a great deal for the indoctrinal teachings and value systems of the member countries. China? China is so strongly attached to Taoism and Confucianism that it has had a great deal to do with their country.... unless you are referring to Maoism-style Communism, but even an atheist has a belief system. The U.S. early founding fathers obviously had X-tianity as a fulcrum from which the Constitution came into being..."In God we Trust," if not religion.

Thirdly. it could be argued (and I'm sure you will ), the U.S.S.R. was already weakened by it atheistic government indoctrinations. If you like, you can say both Reagan and Gorbie aided it demise, but as you know once the country abandoned its so-called communist ideologies, the people quicky returned to their religious roots with churches being restored and priests openly doing their preaching. In other words - religion was underground during the 75 years of the experiment, but the people were still 'religious'.

My mistake. The line(s) - "People survive with value systems of some type or another. It is our condition. Those rare individuals that do not have, (or have forsaken), any values at all live without reason or structure," had nothing to do with the U.S.S.R. directly. But I still stand on that otherwise.

It's a hard call to say whether values derived from religion or vice-versa... they may be one and the same, if not handmaidens in the human condition. I do not disagree with your "Many skeptics and even athiests were quite moral people; many theists and mystics are scumbags. One can believe in objective ethics and values without holding to any theological view." Do you think we were born with a value system or have learned it thru various indoctrinations...? I tend to think that it has been with us since birth, but possibly renewed or reinforced thru theology or by those conditioned by theology.

"cub"

[perezoso]

We are more akin to monkeys than angels, O RoshiCub; our social interactions and groupings are more similiar to a pack of baboons than to seraphim. Religion may serve some ethical if not biological end, but is also used for tyranny, control, oppression. I could give a rats ass about either a new version of the King James or the Bhagavad Gita; what is needed is a radical restructuring of employment, transportation, economics, property relations, etc. Our problems are economic in nature, not spiritual. And my view is that asking humans to be "ethical" is sort of like asking your rich neighbor for his Esplanade--chances slim to none. Only thing an okie understands is a gun to his head, or maybe fearing someone else's dick in his wife's ass.

Have a good 'un

[stilltrucking]

CAPITALISM INC.THE »PHAGIC« CHARACTER OF CAPITALISMAn Essay by Anil K. Jain

"But there is a good point in Webers analysis, too:the link between capitalism and religion – although it might be the »wrong« link. And herewe can come back to Freud: In the beginning of »Civilization and Its Discontents« he quotes»a friend«, Romain Roland, with the statement that religion is, more than anything else, about a sensation of eternity, a feeling as of something limitless, unbounded – as it were, oceanic. Maybe it is exactly that search for an »oceanic feeling« that builds the common ground of religion and capitalism – a drive to both dissolution and (unbounded) expansion."
http://www.power-xs.de/jain/pub/capitalisminc.pdf
****************************8

lGerman 390/Comp. Lit. 396/Engl 363/CHID 498"Freud and the Literary Imagination"Lecture Notes: Civilization and Its DiscontentsI. Background
Written 1929, published 1930. First World War as defining experience for Freud and his contemporaries. WWI as the first technologically advanced war, with the use of tanks, poison gas, etc. Death became anonymous in the trenches, mass killing took place for the first time in this war. This experience generated a new sense of pessimism about the human being and human nature.
–Freud himself represents a profoundly pessimistic point of view in this treatise. He transfers the intra-psychic conflict (between ego and id; pleasure principle and reality principle; unconscious and conscious mind; etc.) that he had analyzed in his psychoanalytical writings over to the domain of human civilization. Civilization itself comes to be defined as a space of conflict, or as an extension into cultural community of the tensions that stigmatize the individual psyche.
http://courses.washington.edu/freudlit/ ... .Notes.htm

you know i am a scholary want to be professor but I wish i could find a way to articulate religion is wired into our brains, How we deal with it, that bit from burroughs from the adding machine,
we can make all those changes a lot easier once the mad doctors map our brains and know exactly what to fix. Cro-Magon religions are so dangerous, a little electrode at birth, or a microchip, a permanent dose of Soma will fix us right up and make us safer from Bush and Bin Laden
"God save us from the improvers of humanity" "self loathing" that phrase jumps out from my acid etched reading of N.

[stilltrucking]

double post deleted

oh by the way mr wilson, I liked you better with tits.