Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Wiccan: None of the Above

[perezoso]

Christian: One who believes the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. A. Bierce

Various “faiths” are flourishing these days in California. Whether they are fundamentalists or muslims, buddhists or jews, pagans or Catholics, these “faithful” people continually argue and bicker over their rights to worship whatever religion they care to, and continually assert that their particular religion should be represented and respected by public institutions. No one seems to argue, however, about the actual truth of these “faiths.” Are they all true and aiming for the same spiritual goal? Obviously the Christians—whether protestant or catholic--have the majority and the weight of tradition behind them, for better or worse. The multitudes of evangelicals that voted in Bush certainly believe they have some mandate due to their superior numbers; to more secular-minded types, the protestant victory brings up fears of mob rule and "the tyranny of the majority."

It seems not to have occurred to any of these “faithful” humans (whether they are Baptist bonehead sunday schoolers, muslim zealots aiming their prayers towards Mecca, or a small group of intoxicated feminists chanting to the Moon Goddess) that there is no rational explanation or justification for their beliefs. Faith is not a method of proof. And no miracles have ever been confirmed (notwithstanding regular reports of, say, the Virgin of Guadalupe), nor are there any grounds for believing in occult or mystical phenomena. ( Bayes' Theorem demonstrates that as decades and then centuries pass with no other verified reports of miracles--at least of the wizard-type such as water-walking, water into wine, raising the dead--then the likelihood of any miracles ever having occured steadily diminishes). Jesus walking on water OR an all-seeing prophet such as Mohammed OR a moon goddess OR the zodiac are all, I assert, equally false.

We might agree that there are noble ethical truths expressed in religious texts; the Sermon on the Mount, for example, provides some decent rules for human conduct, even if we don’t subscribe to the belief system. Many reasonable humans would agree the Ten Commandments are in principle correct, I think; we might also respect Buddha’s teachings that “life is suffering.” Yet these ethical rules are not usually what is being debated. What is debated is who or what we should worship, what is the proper theological authority, what is the appropriate spiritual King whom we should obey.

Obviously the Founding Fathers made sure that no particular faith would become the state religion, and no citizen is required to be a member of any church. We should recall that Founding Fathers such as Jefferson or Franklin or Washington did not subscribe to any organized form of Christianity; their ideas and thoughts being more molded by Enlightenment thought and Greek rationalism. That type of rationality is now, unfortunately, in short supply. Indeed, Bush and Cheney and their henchmen repeatedly claim theirs is the "right God", and the GOP success was due largely to the efforts of "conservative Christians" who have converted the Beatitudes and Christ's gospel of forgiveness--a message which has some merit considered from a purely materialist and atheistic perspective-- into a sort of redneck capitalist jihad......

[mnaz]

Nice post, perezozo. Of course, the problem with trying to discuss matters of faith using rationality is that faith isn't based on rationality. The most deeply religious folks whom I've encountered state flat out that God has directly "spoken" to them at some point(s) along the way, as a result of intense prayer. There is no penetrating this core conviction with any amount of appeal to reason.

But from the start, the wisdom and ethics of Jesus have been at times corrupted (to varying degrees) by the branches of the church which sprang up in his name. I think many people recognize this. Some even question the validity of the so-called Pauline epistles, though it's been a long while since I read anything on that issue. If I remember correctly, some of these doubters even went so far as to describe a couple of the Pauline epistles as some kind of hoax perpetrated by the Jewish community to serve as "revenge" against their Roman dominators.
There are no shortage of theories and beliefs in this realm, that's for sure.

The concern about the potential of "mob rule" under a growing, mobilizing army of zealots in this country is a realistic one.

[jimboloco]

WHAT IN CREATION
Mahasattva forty-niner

Mind the mine,
mine the mind,
mind the mind,
mine the mine.

Be a real gold digger.

Sam laughing meditation

[judih]

nice mandala

chanting to the moon goddess, to buddha or to unknown agents is a hypnotic activity.
miracles, on the other hand, are relative.

it's a miracle, for example, that i have access to so many fascinating minds (mine, mined or otherwise) via a strange box that hums when there's an optic cable connection.

it's a miracle that the earth still holds together considering all the possible catastrophes.

it's a miracle that people manage to hold countries together in spite of almost constant bickering and bloodshed.

what's a water-walker? There are amphibians which think nothing of getting from A to B while walking on water.

what's flying? to an eagle, it's no big deal.

As Castenada reminded us, if we lose our fear, we can accomplish miracles.

people levitate. others travel around the world to find their soulmates. Miracles happen.

religion/shmaligion...things happen.

that's the cool side of life on earth

[jimboloco]

As Castenada reminded us, if we lose our fear, we can accomplish miracles.
Womon
I am sometime so gripped with de fear.
It come on an bear on me weigh me down like a tired old dog I become filled wid sensations of despair even worse a brooding DREAD.
I would grow dreadlocks as antidote.But had to give myself a BUZZ cut so my Stetson hat would fit.
Emerging once again. It was months since the last time. Came upon me just to let me know the truth is that we are all vulnerable.
I keeps working on the courage, tho. The emerging courage that kfills the pool with balmy healing, soothing energies.

I got my oncology nursing society certification from the award that I got from the Univ of South Florida nursing students for "outstanding perceptor"at St. Joe's Hospital via a $250 dollar award that paid for the ONC exam, the award presented to me by Dean Patricia Burns of the USF School of Nursing, with whom I'd had a terrible flap in November of 1998 when I'd sent out a student email to "all recipients" in reply to an Air Force recruiter at the school of Public health.....it made the student paper, had the Air Force jumping, she threatened me with lible "Do you want to be a part of a genocidal war machine?" Oh so, learning skillful means now, even so a spontaneous creative act like that was done willfully the hounds were howling, all the staf and faculties and students of the schools of medicine, public health and nursing heard my wailing....
but good graces and fortituous synchronicity brought us together again and she told me later that she "liked my style."
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:37 am

I may never lose my fear. It is a doorway that I have to walk through.

[perezoso]

A yes Carlos Castanetas.....Don Long Juan, a Yankmee Way of Knowledge

Or Journey TO Wall Street


He provided some apres-bong yuks, yeah......

[hester_prynne]

Religion=Compost.
growth to decay to growth to decay to growth to decay.....
being is midway.

Hey Zoso, you ever read any E. Swedenborg? I composted into that church this time round. I find his stuff fascinating.
I've also been known to dance naked around a steaming cauldron in the forest. I found that to be enchanting.

My question. If you lose the rights or wrongs around religious beliefs, then whaddya got?

H

[perezoso]

Religion as compost, yes, sort of like manure.

Remember this chestnut?: Religion is the opiate of the masses.

Some truth there.

When you rid yrself of ghosts, you may feel a bit dizzy at first. Then you look around and see monkeys calling themselves "Christians" and have a laugh. Other monkeys meditate or play football or read horoscopes or even can program java, but they still monkey, even with nice perfume on.

Merry Chimpmas

[stilltrucking]

My fear was insanity, it all started when I was about eight. Then one night about thirty years ago I sat down with a swiss cheese sandwich on moldy rye and a copy of Ray Nitzke's books about tragedy and morality.

speaking of manure

"In the final analysis, he is only the precondition for his work, its maternal womb, the soil or, in some cases, the dung and manure out of which it grows—and thus, in most cases, something that we must forget about, if we want to enjoy the work itself. Our understanding of the origin of a work involves physiologists and vivisectionists of the spirit—never the aesthetic men, the artists, never!"
G. of M.

[perezoso]

Dude: are you insane or just plain schtoopid? I am waiting to read a post written by you which reaches say a 10 grade level of insight. Leave my posts alone and I'll do the same fer u, awraht cowboi?

[stilltrucking]

[perezoso]

Cool. Quoting Nietzsche, a skeptic if there ever was one. Yet I do not see how the quote pertains to my original post. Nietzsche saw the absurdity of Judeo-X-tianity better than about anyone, including Marx, although FN certainly has his shortcomings as well--he was no logician, nor even a decent social scientist as Marx was.

[stilltrucking]

There are several other people on this post. The comment about fear was not intended for you. The quote about Nizke was just a reaction to religion as manure, the artist as manure just popped into my mind.
I think if was you who mentioned manure.

I think one of the reasons for the Hitler's hatred of the Jews was that he saw Christianity as a Jewish plot to enslave the ubermensch with slave morality. There is a bit in G of M where he talks about the Jews as a priestly people. Then he goes on to discuss "priestly resentment" I have wondered if Hitler actualy read any Nietzsche other than to rip off a few catchy phrases

As for your comments about Christianity I don't really get your point
Mnaz did, so I am sure you did have one.
Miracles?
*************
I was crazy, and I was wild
I had seen the tiger smile
I spit in a bamboo viper's face
And I'd be dead but by God's grace


It was a long walk in a sad rain
And nobody tried to be John Wayne
I came home, but Tex did not
And I can't talk about the hit he got

Now I got a little limp when I walk
And I got a little tremolo when I talk
But the letter I got from Whisky Sam
Said 'you're a walking, talking miracle from Vietnam'

John Cash
*****************
You write a lot of good stuff, I like the way you put the meaning between the lines, I don't try to figure out why or how you do it.
I thought the Nietzsche quote was relevant.

[perezoso]

The Hester: I've also been known to dance naked around a steaming cauldron in the forest

Now that does sound pious. Indoctrinate me in your faith Priestess. Can I put your "spiritual" training on my credit card?

[Doreen Peri]

I believe in worshiping each other's spirits.

This is my religion.