US Troops

[jimboloco]

The VA does help thru the vet centers

The Silence of the Lambs
perfect
yeah it's a bit late now eh?
but hey
we woke up late
pissed

[stilltrucking]

The VA does help thru the vet centers

If you say so jimbo, Maybe some people have fallen through the cracks. My evidence that they don’t always help is anecdotal. I will see if I can find the articles I mentioned.

Some of those lambs were generals. They let Rumsfeld intimidate them.

What did Boxer and Pelosi know that Hillary and Diane did not?

I would like a couple more poll questions please

Troops in Iraq are coming home dead

Troops in Iraq are coming home
with out legs,
arms,
eyes,
faces,

[jimboloco]

(letter to the editor of the Timez)

Subject: Soldiers of all seasons (perspective)

"Soldiers of all seasons" ,by KATHLEEN OCHSHORN , Univ of Tampa,

Published December 3, 2006 in the Perspective,

was a breakthrough for common sense.

She quotes a comment by the president.

"When President Bush landed in Vietnam last month, he made a mind-boggling comparison between the wars, suggesting our long haul in Vietnam had somehow contributed to that county's eventual success and stability. "

I thought we left Vietnam scarred, defoliated, wounded, with eastern Cambodia carpet-bombed beyond recognition. That was my impression after a year there flying cargo planes. It's an absurdity. He uses doublethink inside his own head, something he evidently learned from Rumsfield.

She is right, veterans and the public need to open up debate about how, when, and why the executive branch was able to employ the US military, especially in such a unilateral unprepared way, with dubious results, but at least Gold Star mothers are speaking out.

"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman."(Thomas Paine, 1776)

J W

© Copyright 2006 St. Petersburg Times.

[stilltrucking]

What Can I say jimbo, I have read Winter Soldiers. I tried to do my patriotic chore, in 1964
but I was certified four
F
I was already crazy enough
THe army decided I did not need post graduate work
I was a real live son of Crazy Mike
SO I decided to become a conscientious objector
I finally got my draft status raised to 1-Y
I was 23 in 1964
I felt guilty cause others were fighting for my freedom

Talking about patriots
Ben Barnes a Texas politician who got King George 43 his national guard post said the other day that when he visited the wall in DC he had a religious experience as a shaft of sunlight hit the names, he thought of the dozens of the sons of the rich and connected that he had got out of the war and thought these men died because someone else did not do his patriotic chore.


This is a verbatim post below. Cause what canst I say on this subject?
Nothing

paste

Soldiers Say Army Ignores, Punishes Mental Anguish
by Daniel Zwerdling
All Things Considered, December 4, 2006 · Army studies show that at least 20 percent to 25 percent of the soldiers who have served in Iraq display symptoms of serious mental-health problems, including depression, substance abuse and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Administration officials say there are extensive programs to heal soldiers both at home and in Iraq.

But an NPR investigation at Colorado's Ft. Carson has found that even those who feel desperate can have trouble getting the help they need. In fact, evidence suggests that officers at Ft. Carson punish soldiers who need help, and even kick them out of the Army.

Soldier Tyler Jennings says that when he came home from Iraq last year, he felt so depressed and desperate that he decided to kill himself. Late one night in the middle of May, his wife was out of town, and he felt more scared than he'd felt in gunfights in Iraq. Jennings says he opened the window, tied a noose around his neck and started drinking vodka, "trying to get drunk enough to either slip or just make that decision."

Five months before, Jennings had gone to the medical center at Ft. Carson, where a staff member typed up his symptoms: "Crying spells... hopelessness... helplessness... worthlessness." Jennings says that when the sergeants who ran his platoon found out he was having a breakdown and taking drugs, they started to haze him. He decided to attempt suicide when they said that they would eject him from the Army.

"You know, there were many times I've told my wife -- in just a state of panic, and just being so upset -- that I really wished I just died over there [in Iraq]," he said. "Cause if you just die over there, everyone writes you off as a hero."

Services Out of Reach for Soldiers

Jennings isn't alone. Other soldiers who've returned to Ft. Carson from Iraq say they feel betrayed by the way officials have treated them. Army files show that these were soldiers in good standing before they went to Iraq, and that they started spinning out of control upon their return.

Since the war in Vietnam, military leaders have said that soldiers who are wounded emotionally need help, just like soldiers missing limbs.

"The goal, first and foremost, is to identify who's having a problem," says William Winkenwerder, assistant secretary of defense for health affairs. "Secondly, it's to provide immediate support. And finally, our goal is to restore good mental health."

The Army boasts of having great programs to care for soldiers. The Pentagon has sent therapists to Iraq to work with soldiers in the field. And at Army bases in the United States, mental-health units offer individual and group therapy, and counseling for substance abuse. But soldiers say that in practice, the mental-health programs at Ft. Carson don’t work the way they should.

For instance, soldiers fill out questionnaires when they return from Iraq that are supposed to warn officials if they might be getting depressed, or suffering from PTSD, or abusing alcohol or drugs. But many soldiers at Ft. Carson say that even though they acknowledged on the questionnaires that they were having disturbing symptoms, nobody at the base followed up to make sure they got appropriate support. A study by the investigative arm of Congress, the Government Accountability Office, suggests it's a national problem: GAO found that about 80 percent of the soldiers who showed potential signs of PTSD were not referred for mental health follow-ups.

The Pentagon disagrees with the GAO's findings.

Soldiers at Ft. Carson also say that even when they request support, the mental-health unit is so overwhelmed that they can't get the help they need. Corey Davis, who was a machine gunner in Iraq, says he began "freaking out" after he came back to Ft. Carson; he had constant nightmares and began using drugs. He says he finally got up the courage to go to the Army hospital to beg for help.

"They said I had to wait a month and a half before I'd be seen," Davis said. "I almost started crying right there."

Intimidated by Superiors

Almost all of the soldiers said that their worst problem is that their supervisors and friends turned them into pariahs when they learned that they were having an emotional crisis. Supervisors said it's true: They are giving some soldiers with problems a hard time, because they don't belong in the Army.

Jennings called a supervisor at Ft. Carson to say that he had almost killed himself, so he was going to skip formation to check into a psychiatric ward. The Defense Department's clinical guidelines say that when a soldier has been planning suicide, one of the main ways to help is to put him in the hospital. Instead, officers sent a team of soldiers to his house to put him in jail, saying that Jennings was AWOL for missing work.

"I had them pounding on my door out there. They're saying 'Jennings, you're AWOL. The police are going to come get you. You've got 10 seconds to open up this door,'" Jennings said. "I was really scared about it. But finally, I opened the door up for them, and I was like 'I'm going to the hospital.'"

A supervisor in Jennings' platoon corroborated Jennings' account of the incident.

Disciplined, Then Purged from the Ranks

Evidence suggests that officials are kicking soldiers with PTSD out of the Army in a manner that masks the problem.

Richard Travis, formerly the Army's senior prosecutor at Ft. Carson, is now in private practice. He says that the Army has to pay special mental-health benefits to soldiers discharged due to PTSD. But soldiers discharged for breaking the rules receive fewer or even no benefits, he says.

Alex Orum's medical records showed that he had PTSD, but his officers expelled him from the Army earlier this year for "patterns of misconduct," repeatedly citing him on disciplinary grounds. In Orum's case, he was cited for such infractions as showing up late to formation, coming to work unwashed, mishandling his personal finances and lying to supervisors -- behaviors which psychiatrists say are consistent with PTSD.

Sergeant Nathan Towsley told NPR, "When I'm dealing with Alex Orum's personal problems on a daily basis, I don't have time to train soldiers to fight in Iraq. I have to get rid of him, because he is a detriment to the rest of the soldiers."

Doctors diagnosed another soldier named Jason Harvey with PTSD. At the end of May this year, Harvey slashed his wrists in a cry for help. Officials also kicked Harvey out a few months ago for "patterns of misconduct."

A therapist diagnosed Tyler Jennings with PTSD in May, but the Army's records show he is being tossed out because he used drugs and missed formations. Files on other soldiers suggest the same pattern: Those who seek mental-health help are repeatedly cited for misconduct, then purged from the ranks.

Most of these soldiers are leaving the Army with less than an "honorable discharge" -- which an Army document warns "can result in substantial prejudice in your civilian life." In other words, the Army is pushing them out in disgrace.
Anne Hawke produced this report for broadcast.

Related NPR Stories
May 31, 2006Post-Traumatic Stress Treatment Costs Soar
Nov. 23, 2005Iraq Soldier Ponders Life with PTSD
Aug. 19, 2005Virtual Reality Therapy for Combat Stress
July 8, 2005Returning Soldier Finds Role as Advocate
July 7, 2005PTSD Among Poor Soldiers: Herold's Story
June 2, 2005A Woman Guard Member's Struggle with PTSD
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=6576505


There are also other reports on this link. They need to be read. I have said it about a thousand times. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. If you don't have a clue what PTSD is, then don't prove you don't have a clue by speaking out and getting in the way of any of these people getting help for a war wound! If you really want a shock, type in the search terms, "murder and Fort Carson" on Google.

[jimboloco]

yeah patch em up
send em back
or toss em out
while there's still more fresh blood
ha
someday this frankenstein will
devour its master
and liberation
from the bullshit
will bring peace
viva america del sur
making friends with the world

[jimboloco]

GS <digstelz> wrote: From: "Greg " To: <jayalexus>"}?":)
Hi,
A friend of mine in Bradenton has an 18 yr. old son who is a senior in high school. He plays the stand up bass (mostly classical). They have already talked to the Air Force recruiter about joining for the specific reason of playing in the Air Force Band (orchestra). They heard about the band from music camp instructors last Summer. Both instructors had been in this band.

My friend is a Bush supporter and thinks this situation will be okay for his son and nothing bad will happen. Would you or one of peers in the Tampa Bay Chapter be willing to discuss the situation with my friend?

Thanks.
Greg

J W <opusmaximus2050> wrote:
Ask him if he minds playing taps?
Anyhow, he is cannon fodder, it's not enough to want to skirt the issues or avoid combat yet "serve."
They got your body, best to stay away from the military until we got somebody in charge with some brains.

Re: ANY TAKERS Fwd: Air Force Recruitment Questions
To: jayalexus@, "G S" <digstelz>
PS I'd be happy to discuss this with your friend
Jimbo

[the flaming ace]

What Can I say jimbo, I have read Winter Soldiers. I tried to do my patriotic chore, in 1964
but I was certified four
F
I was already crazy enough
THe army decided I did not need post graduate work
I was a real live son of Crazy Mike
SO I decided to become a conscientious objector
I finally got my draft status raised to 1-Y
I was 23 in 1964
I felt guilty cause others were fighting for my freedom

uh huh, i see what you mean
, man, like it's such a basic truth
not to believe in that web of lies
cause first of all
you are a freedumb farter
an the guilt trip is all a part of the manipulations of the status quo
so don't fall for that bullshit
look at these guys
wrecks
emerging proletarians
i swear

[stilltrucking]

Shape shifters
I was never a young republican
Eugene Debs, Norman Thomas
Always been heroes to me
Homage to Catalonia
I wished I had been able to join the Lincoln Brigade
I had no desire to rise from the masses
I wanted to rise with them
Now I see the masses are the enemy I must love
That great hump of meat in the bell curve
All they want is a color tv and a suv
take a little trip with the kids
A full lunch pail and a job
a chicken in ever pot
an ipod and a cell phone
believe in the red white and blue
freedom and dignity
when the center cannot hold

a shame to be a 4f
I wanted to join the glidding club
but first I had to get my private pilots liscense
whizzed through the first eight or nine hours
then it was time to solo
but I had to take the FAA flight physical
Asked me my draft status
4f
I was flunked out
ashamed to tell my friends why

After crazy mike died it all froze up for me
Could not get to sleep at night with out the image of a shot gun under my chin, just an imaginary shot gun and an imaginary trigger that I never tripped, but it was comforting and I would fall asleep with that.

This was before homeboy decided to becoma a psychiatrist, he did not believe in it back in 1963. But I told him I wanted to see one. He fixed me up with a buddy another flight surgeon who had just retired and went into private practice.

Quit college lost the student deferment called up in 1963, got certified 4f.

But what saved me was moving away from baltimore and everyone I knew.

"Well, I gotta tell the story boys I don’t know the reason why" Waylon Jennings.

reposted from eye witness reports board

www.prism-perfect.net/archive/nietzsche-buddhism/

continued


Quote:
Nietzsche and Buddhism
“Buddhism is the only positivistic religion in history; even in its epistemology (a strict phenomenalism) it has stopped saying ‘war against sin’ and instead, giving reality its dues, says ‘war on suffering.’” (AC 20) Buddhism, being essentially more advanced, both chronologically and philosophically, has developed to the point where it no longer needs to employ the sort of sneaky marketing found in Christian doctrine. It does not need to tell stories of original sin to explain our conditioned feelings of sinfulness. In its age, Buddhism has become passive and complacent—feelings of unsatisfactoriness are just accepted without struggle. “Buddhists have resigned themselves to their own impotence and seek merely to conserve their remaining strength by way of a kind of ‘hedonism of the weary’ (WP 155)” (Davis 92)


emphasis mine, I think jimboloco is living proof to me that Nietzsche got it wrong about the impotence of Buddhists.

i hope jimbo don't mind me taking his name in vain

I am getting way off topic here I think sorry

I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane
Nobody knows if it's something to bless or to blame
So far I ain't found a rhyme or a reason to change
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane Waylon Jennings

[whimsicaldeb]

I didn’t vote. Too biased of a poll.

Instead I want to share this Salon article:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/ ... op_levels/
Military readiness lowest since Vietnam War
Expert advisors to the Iraq Study Group say the U.S. military now faces a cold, hard truth: It can't muster many more combat troops for the war.
By Mark Benjamin
December 8, 2006

...
The Iraq Study Group did consider whether a major increase in the number of U.S. troops in Iraq -- perhaps by as much as 100,000 or 200,000 troops -- might help. But the panel explicitly ruled out a large, continual boost in U.S. forces. "America's military capacity is stretched thin: we do not have the troops or equipment to make a substantial, sustained increase in our troop presence," the group found.

That echoes the sentiments of numerous retired military officers who have long argued that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are unsustainable even at the current pace. "Unless things start to improve, we will start to see a serious problem in six to nine months," Bernard E. Trainor, a retired Marine Corps three-star general and a former deputy chief of staff under Ronald Reagan, told Salon in April 2005.

The new Baker Commission report suggests that serious problems have already arrived. "U.S. military forces, especially our ground forces, have been stretched nearly to the breaking point by repeated deployments in Iraq," it says. Second and third combat tours are grinding away at personnel and equipment to the point where now, less than one-third of Army units are "currently at high readiness levels." The proper pace of withdrawal, the panel added, would mean that "all combat brigades not necessary for force protection" could be out of Iraq by the first quarter of 2008.

At a Senate hearing on the Baker-Hamilton report on Thursday, McCain said a call to begin the process of getting out of the war-torn country is a "recipe that will lead to our defeat in Iraq," adding that "there's only one thing worse than an overstressed Army and Marine Corps, and that's a defeated Army and Marine Corps."

Still, McCain admits that additional soldiers are elusive at this point. During the confirmation hearing for incoming Defense Secretary Robert Gates this week, McCain called for more "boots on the ground" in Iraq, but admitted that might be difficult. McCain quickly added that the strain on the military could have been avoided had Washington followed his advice years ago to make the Army bigger. "There were some of us three and a half years ago that said we needed to increase the size of the Army and the Marine Corps," McCain told Gates.

Calling for more troops while knowing they are probably unavailable probably has as much to do with domestic politics as winning the war in Iraq, says Christopher Gelpi, a political science professor at Duke.

(cutting)

The military has said that a small, short-term increase is possible, but not much more. U.S. Central Command Commander Gen. John Abizaid told McCain at a Senate hearing Nov. 15: "We can put in 20,000 more Americans tomorrow and achieve a temporary effect. But when you look at the overall American force pool that's available out there, the ability to sustain that commitment is simply not something that we have right now with the size of the Army and the Marine Corps."

House Democrats have been among those scrutinizing the wear and tear to which Abizaid was referring. Perhaps the most complete analysis of the grave situation facing U.S. ground forces was prepared by the Democratic staff on the House Appropriations Committee in September, which found that the "vast majority" of 23 active-duty Army combat units not currently in Iraq at that time were at "the lowest readiness levels." It added that roughly half of all Army units everywhere, including reserve units, "received the lowest readiness rating any fully formed unit can receive." It also said: "Army military readiness rates have declined to levels not seen since the end of the Vietnam war."

That sentiment is now becoming increasingly bipartisan. In a speech at the School of Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University on Thursday night, Nebraska Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel, a veteran of Vietnam like McCain, warned against sending more troops to Iraq. "Our ongoing deployment in Iraq is debilitating our military force structure," Hagel warned. "We are decimating the most powerful fighting force the world has ever known, and we are only beginning to understand the astounding cost and time it will take to rebuild our force structure."

[stilltrucking]

I could not understand it at first, this talk of a hollow army. We must have a standing army of millions, how come we can't find more troops. Then I heard a general talking about "rotation" has to do with how often and how long a unit can be deployed to Iraq There are only a hundred and forty thousand in Iraq at this time, but over half a million troops have been roatated through the combat zone and that was as of last year. No idea what the number is now.

Washington Post had picture of the junk coming home from Iraq, wrecked vehicles that can't be repaired fast enough. And so far as training Iraqi troops over a billion dollars budgeted to get them basic equipment like radios, vehicles, etc has not been allocated.

What has been sorely lacking is oversight.
That is what I am hoping for, a reality check.
I hope Reid the new senate majority leader is half the man Pelosi is. I don't have much confidence in him.

I will try to find some links

[jimboloco]

well I am thinking am more of a Universalist than a Buddhist
but adhere to Buddhist principles
and the still small voice
anyhow

as far as the poll goes, I voted
and believe it as personal experience
fortunately many more vets are speaking out and enlistments are down
but there are still a lot of ignoramuses toting guns and doing all sorts of things in Iraq at the beck and call of the imperial dunce and hoping that he is the visionary prez they want to believe in.

[jimboloco]

Note: this was forwarded from Flveterans@aol.com
vets for common sense, who I recently met at the first annual Tampa Bay VFP XMAS banquet

Letter From a Marine:
A Young Marine Speaks Out

By P M

12/08/06 --- I'm sick and tired of this patriotic, nationalistic and fascist crap. I stood through a memorial service today for a young Marine that was killed in Iraq back in April. During this memorial a number of people spoke about the guy and about his sacrifice for the country. How do you justify 'sacrificing' your life for a war which is not only illegal, but is being prosecuted to the extent where the only thing keeping us there is one man's power, and his ego. A recent Marine Corps intelligence report that was leaked said that the war in the al-Anbar province is unwinnable. It said that there was nothing we could do to win the hearts and minds, or the military operations in that area. So I wonder, why are we still there? Democracy is not forced upon people at gunpoint. It's the result of forward thinking individuals who take the initiative and risks to give their fellow countrymen a better way of life.

When I joined I took an oath. In that oath I swore to protect the Constitution of the United States. I didn't swear to build democracies in countries on the other side of the world under the guise of "national security." I didn't join the military to be part of an Orwellian ("1984") war machine that is in an obligatory war against whoever the state deems the enemy to be so that the populace can be controlled and riled up in a pro-nationalistic frenzy to support any new and oppressive law that will be the key to destroying the enemy. Example given – the Patriot Act. So aptly named, and totally against all that the constitution stands for. President Bush used the reactionary nature of our society to bring our country together and to infuse into the national psyche a need to give up their little-used rights in the hope to make our nation a little safer. The same scare tactics he used to win elections. He drones on and on about how America and the world would be a less safe place if we weren't killing Iraqis, and that we'd have to fight the terrorists at home if we weren't abroad. In our modern day emotive society this strategy (or strategery?) works, or had worked, up until last month's elections.

My point in this; to show that America was never nationalistic. If anything they were Statalistic (giving their allegiance to the state of their residence). This is shown in the fact that the founders created states with fully capable and independent governments and not provinces that were just a division of the federal government. These men believed that America was a place where imperialistic values would be non-existent. Where the people trying to make their lives better by working hard, thinking, inventing and using the free market would tie up so much of normal life that imperialistic colonization and the fighting of wars thousands of miles away for interests that are not our own would be avoided. They believed this expansion of power could be left to the European nations, the England, France and Spain of their time. However this recent, and current influx of nationalistic feeling has created an environment where giving up your rights, going to a foreign country to fight a people who did not ask for us to be there, nor did their leader do anything to warrant us being there, and dying would be considered honorable and heroic. I don't believe it anymore. I don't believe it's right for any American to go along with it anymore. Yes I know that we in the military are bound by the UCMJ and somehow don't fall under the Constitution (the very thing we're suppose to be defending) but sooner or later there is a decision that every American soldier, marine, airmen and seamen makes to allow themselves to be sent to a war that is against every fiber this country was founded on. I know that when April rolls around I will be thinking long and hard on that decision. Even though we in the military are just doing as we're told we still have the moral and ethical obligation to choose to do as we're told, or to say, "No, that isn't right." I believe that if more troopers like me and the professional military, the officers and commanders, start standing up and saying that they won't let themselves or their troops go to this illegal war people will start standing up and realizing what the heck is going on over there.

The sad fact of the matter is that we are not fighting terrorists in Iraq. We are fighting the Iraqi people who feel like a conquered and occupied people. Personally I have a hard time believing that if I was an Iraqi that I wouldn't be doing everything in my power to kill and maim as many Americans as possible. I know that the vast majority of Americans would not be happy with the Canadian government, or any other foreign government, liberating us from the clutches of George W. Bush, even though a large number of us would like that, and forcing us to accept their system of government. Would not millions of Americans rise up and fight back? Would you not rise up to protect and defend your house and your neighborhood if someone invaded your country? But we send thousands of troops to a foreign country to do just that. How is it moral to fight a people who are just trying to defend their homes and families? I think next time I go to Iraq perhaps I should wear a bright red coat and carry a Brown Bess instead of my digitalized utilities and M16.

Notice I never once used the word homeland in any of this. I have a secondary point I want to bring up now. Never once was the term homeland ever used to describe the country of America until Mr. Bush began the department of homeland security after the 9/11 attacks. Taking a 20th century history class will teach us that the most notable countries in the last century that referred to their country in this way were Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. Hitler used the term fatherland to drum up support, nationalistic support, for his growing war machine. He used the nationalism he created in the minds of the Germans to justify the sacrifice of their livelihood to build the war machine to get back their power from the oppressive restrictions the English and French had put on them at Versailles. This is the same feeling that has been virulently infecting the American psyche in the last hundred years. This is the same feeling that consoles a mother after her son is killed in an attempt to prosecute an aggressor's war 10,000 miles away. It's also known as Patriotism these days, but I say, "No more." No more nationalistic inanity, no more passing it off as patriotism. Patriotism is learning, and educating oneself to understand what their country really stands for.

I heard a lot during the memorial service about how the dead Marine did so much good for others and how his helping others was like a little microcosm of America helping because we have the power to do so. Well if we have the power to help people why aren't we helping in Darfur where hundreds of thousands of people have died in the last 10 years. Saddam was convicted and sentenced to death for killing 143 Shiites who conspired to assassinate him. (I know all you "patriotic" Americans would be calling for the heads of anyone who conspired to assassinate supreme leader Bush). And yet we spend upwards of 1 trillion dollars and nearing 3,000 lives to help these Iraqis when they don't even want us there. Not to mention we don't have the legal justification to be there. I guess we should wait around for the omnipotent W Bush to decide who we should use our superpowerdom to help next. It's about time to throw him and the rest of the fascists out. Moreover it's about time to start educating Americans about their past and history, and letting them know that imperialistic leaders are not what the founders of this great country wanted.
P M <grimmythedog> has been a Marine for 2 years. He is in the infantry (a "grunt"), and spent 7 months in the al-Anbar province of Iraq. He went on more than 180 combat patrols in and outside of the city of Fallujah, where he was hit with 2 IEDs (luckily never injured) and was involved in a number of firefights. He is currently stationed in Twentynine Palms, CA, and due to return to Iraq for a second deployment in April 2007. He is 21-years-old.

soo if he returns to the Iraq War, he will no longer be "willfully ignorant," just faced with days of decidion,, or going because he feels guilty about deserting his corps buddies. Semper Fi.
That is another level, not included in the poll.

[jimboloco]

(edog) I just sent Phil, grimmythedog , an email offering support.
and included again an excerpt from his letter where he explicitly states his dilema and choices he has to make. Obviously a smart cookie, what happens when you wake up, your brain starts to percolate.

Phil, I can't make your choices for you, but I can celebrate your awakening. Same thing happenned to me after I came home from Vietnam, was subject to a redeployment back to the war, so I said no.

Whatever you choose, I wish you well and appreciate your efforts.
J W

However this recent, and current influx of nationalistic feeling has created an environment where giving up your rights, going to a foreign country to
fight a people who did not ask for us to be there, nor did their leader do anything to warrant us being there, and dying would be considered honorable and heroic. I don't believe it anymore. I don't believe it's right for any American to go along with it anymore. Yes I know that we in the military are bound by the UCMJ and somehow don't fall under the Constitution (the very thing we're suppose to be defending) but sooner or later there is a decision that every American soldier, marine, airmen and seamen makes to allow themselves to be sent to a war that is against every fiber this country was founded on. I know that when April rolls around I will be thinking long and hard on that decision. Even though we in the military are just doing as we're told we still have the moral and ethical obligation to choose to do as we're told, or to say, "No, that isn't right." I believe that if more troopers like me and the professional military, the officers and commanders, start standing
up and saying that they won't let themselves or their troops go to this illegal war people will start standing up and realizing what the heck is going on over there.

where is edog when we need him?

[stilltrucking]

Yes he could do a lot with this poll.

[e_dog]

Where'd freud say that?