The attention span of americans

[stilltrucking]

So the Iraq Study Group report is out
Now the tap dance
"Bush backing away from the report"
"Israel snorts at idea of talking to Syria"
"Bush waiting for three more reports due in the next week to ten days"

What did I expect?

[stilltrucking]

Thirty percent of Americans do not remember the year the September 11 th attacks occured.

"Believe nothing until you hear the first denial." Bismark?

What we do best these days, spinning and shifting.

The White House denied trying to brush off the study group's report and said those recommendations are being considered alongside internal reviews

But the growing undercurrent of discussions within the administration is shifting responsibility for Iraq's problems to Iraqis.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01823.html

[mnaz]

One-hundred percent of this American remembers exactly when the September 11th attacks occurred. And I cannot indulge (though likely suffer) any other American, from the President on down, who would spin and shift this utter failure of a sentient race toward spreading the word of profit and gain, through skilled, violent expansion into territories that had little to do with anything, so deadly now in the righteousness of it all that they wish they could simply get some sleep. Can't go there. Wish I could.

[stilltrucking]

Do you wish you could get some sleep? I think Bush sleeps well, his conscience is clear. He is a moral righteous man, a true believer, a good christian.

I am not sure I know what you mean? Can't go where? To sleep?
I don't think the Report was a waste of time. It could enpower congress. Maybe some of them will find thier balls, I know Boxer has them But I think the new Senate Majority leader is a sleeze who could fuck up a wet dream. What is his name Reid?

This probably is all turtles from here on down, depending on your answer to the above questions.


I am happy to see December 7th go without a mention here. I suppose that is progress. Was that the day John Lennon was shot? Pick up your pen, take a picture, sing a song. Do something for me. Do it for your self. Sometimes you got to lose a nights sleep.

Quote:

No time to cry in our cocktails. Heft the glass, pick up the pen, go to the typewriter, the keyboard, grab the paint brush, the saxophone, the camera, take a deep breath and charge the goddamn world, confront it, record it, relay it, transform it. That's our task in the aftermath

lescaret
.

I don't loose no sleep over it. It was a fortunate day for me when I realized I was not Jesus Christ Superstar.
I can barely take responsibility for my own actions let alone 300 million people. I don't see it as a problem peculiar to America. I see it as a disease called man.

I had to get down on my knees one night thirty two years ago and pray for sleep. I have not prayed like that for years, trying to figure out how to do it with every breath, every step I take.
RE: The Way of A Pilgrim

a perceptive analysis of spiritual delusion in the novel, Franny and Zoey

I have been ungrateful And I have been unwise Restless from the cradle But now I realize It's so hard to see the rainbow Through glasses dark as these Maybe I'll be able From down on my knees

Oh I am weak Oh I know I am vain Take this weight from me Let my spirit be unchained

Old man swearin' at the sidewalk And I am overcome Seems that we've both forgotten Forgotten to go home

Have I seen an angel Or have I seen a ghost Where's that rock of ages When you need it most

It's so hard to see the rainbow Through glasses dark as these Maybe I'll be able From down on my knees

Just joking about December 7th, I know very well what happened on that day in 1940.


Imagine there was no war

[whimsicaldeb]

So the Iraq Study Group report is out
Now the tap dance
"Bush backing away from the report"
"Israel snorts at idea of talking to Syria"
"Bush waiting for three more reports due in the next week to ten days"

What did I expect?

"New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed,
without any other reason but because they are not already common."
John Locke
Essay of Human Understanding

[Doreen Peri]

I just skimmed your post. Couldn't concentrate long enough to read it. Sorry.

[whimsicaldeb]

Thirty percent of Americans do not remember the year the September 11 th attacks occured.
(cutting)

The White House denied trying to brush off the study group's report and said those recommendations are being considered alongside internal reviews

But the growing undercurrent of discussions within the administration is shifting responsibility for Iraq's problems to Iraqis.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01823.html

I'd say 30% (or more) don't remember their own anniversary date, or their siblings birth date ... things like that. It’s true more for men than women, but even that’s only a generality.

I remember when 9/11 happened, my son does, my husband has to think a few moments before he recalls the date.

I also remember the dates my parents died … but not other sad things that touched me deeply, like the dates certain special aunts & uncles died, my in-laws, my three month old nephew passing of crib death. Doesn’t mean I don’t care, or didn’t care - or don't remember them and what happened - only that I don't remember the dates.

The why of it all is personal and has many different meanings, unique to myself alone. As each year progresses along; my feelings about it all changes. I don’t have such angst any longer, like I used to get – nor the guilt or regrets for doing what someone else thinks I should be done (getting older does have it’s benefits); I’ve learned much, forgiven much, grown much and moving on is no longer something that’s done because I’ve used up all other avenues of pain and suffering – but because I understand how pain and suffer while part of life, are not the whole of life, are not permanent things and can pass … if I allow it to. And I do allow it to flow through, feel it, and then pass away.

…

I don’t expect Bush to change his ways, leopards don’t change their spots and Bush isn’t going to change his way of thinking, and being. But that doesn’t mean he can’t, won’t, or isn’t being rendered ineffective by that growing undercurrent. He needed (and received) people believing in him to succeed. (all of us do!) People now are clearly showing they no longer believe in him, and his leadership. So while he stubbornly stays his course from day to day to day … and the news reports this’ he’s also – daily – finding himself more & more staying that course alone.

(imo) Good! That’s as it should be.

”You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.” – Abraham Lincoln, (attributed)

So true... and, Bush's time is up.

[stilltrucking]

Good points you make deb,

You don't have to fool all the people all the time to get elected to high office in the United States or any where else. Just enough.

Bush makes me think about the slave ship captain that wrote Amazing Grace, the story goes he was saved from a storm at sea and became a born again Christian and gave up the slave trade. Not true, he continued on with it until his wife forced him to give it up they say. He had a habit of taking slave "brides" during the voyage.

My point is that Bush had some kind of religious experience, but it may take anothe thirty years to sink in. I know I had one over thirty years ago and it is still being revealed to me. THose people around him maybe cynical as hell about Christianity, but I think he is a True Believer, which makes him even more dangerous. I wish he was just paying lip service to it. Eric Hoffer The True believer read it a long time ago.

Yeah I got old too deb. I was listening to Car Talk this morning and one of those guys said that the best thing about old age is that it don't last too long. Old age ain't for sissies.

I slipped something in there about pearl harbor day just to see if anybody would notice.

[stilltrucking]

John Newton, the captain did come to have deep remorse about what he had done but it was years later.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/amazing.htm

[whimsicaldeb]

I slipped something in there about pearl harbor day just to see if anybody would notice.

I noticed Jack ... didn't say anything because I didn't (still don't) have anything to say. I'm aware, of what happened, the importance ... still - I personally have nothing to say, or to add to what others are saying, thinking, feeling, writing, doing. However, non of that - even my silence - makes me indifferent. I'm not indifferent ... just quiet. Listening, observing ... BEING here now. Maybe others are doing the same?

~I don't know~
(hard to tell sometimes)

...

Jack - you're Amazing! (such Grace!)

I didn't know this about Amazing Grace, and you're right - it's a perfect analogy. So telling of how some people prefer to believe the fantasy... and so they do; over the facts.

“The facts be ____” ...

Well, not damned - because they're not, the facts are still here, around, available.

And not forgotten - because they're not; you've remembered. Others remember, and I'll remember - now that I've learned it.

...But the truth is far less poetic: 'Amazing Grace' is a song about salvation, but it wasn't composed until long after its writer had left his seafaring days behind him and became a minister.

Poetic! Ah yes… Poems = poetic versions of things have their place and their fans; but so do the facts! I prefer facts over fantasy ~ and I’m not alone, but I do think we tend to be the silent (majority/minority) most of the times. (?)

[whimsicaldeb]

ps ...

My point is that Bush had some kind of religious experience, but it may take anothe thirty years to sink in.

agreed! experiences, you've had um; ditto for me. they are personal! personal lessons. and they don't tend to leave you better equipped to function in this world - by 'human only' standards, anyway.



i'm to fucked to know! and i don't give shit anymore either!

[stilltrucking]

he who can not say there is no redemption is not fit to live paraphrase of Frederick "Ray" Nitzke

You got these men coming home women too, they got some bad memories to deal with, what ever it takes.

It was only after I prayed for and got a nights sleep that I realized I was already redeemed. The dangerous part is the jesus freak phase, have you ever read the genealolgy of morals?

I got a go I should have thought this through more before I posted

let me know if you are scratiching your head at my putrid prose.

got to go
my sister my self
trying to get her to see me as a brother
not a husband
not a father
just her brother
this woman has issues deb
and i am the man to do it
I have willed my body to science
The Men's Studies Department At Smith College for WOmen wants it.

[stilltrucking]

I never said I did not care, I merely said I am not jesus christ
allthough I believe as George Fox said there is one who can speak to my condition.

A man has to learn his limitations deb
losing sleep ove the worlds problems seems vain to me. THat is why I am very intererested in being a Zenjudist Friend

[Doreen Peri]

I finally read 3 posts on this thread but that's about all I could read for now. I've come back to this thread about 5 times but haven't gotten any farther.

[mnaz]

reeaally tired last nite... not a very clear post by me.

Where'd you hear that 30% of americans don't remember what year the Sept. 11th attacks occurred? Not getting on anyone's case here in particular, but I just find that a little incredible, maybe even a touch obscene. Are "we" that callous and self-absorbed and distracted by consumerism, inc., etc.? Jeez... On the other hand, it's just a number I suppose. Maybe I'm the one with a problem.

As for the "spinning and shifting".... only if "we" are ok with being spun and shifted. For all of our stated good and "righteous" intentions in the Iraq invasion, it was motivated (too transparently and sketchily) by corporate profit and gaining imperial influence (by proxy) in the region, and pushed too aggressively by a barrage of strongarm tactics and outright deception. It seems neo-cons argue in favor of gaining such influence by unilateral aggression or just about whatever means necessary-- the ultimate, updated manifest destiny-- very big on the perceived end-justifies-means, and on the U.S. going it alone, these people are. I disagree, that's all. And I think a lot of "us" are starting to take a 2nd look at this "bring it on" mentality. This isn't some twisted Hollywood action movie we're all living.

I haven't even touched the other problems with how we've been spun and shifted re: Iraq.... vast resources diverted inexplicably and unnecessarily to raw militarism that had nothing to with addressing al qaeda's demonstrated threat directly. That, and the abysmal seat-of-the-pants cluelessness with which the occupation proceeded. The list is long and sad... That's one long, sad list.

I heard the other day that many soldiers continue to be motivated to go to Iraq to "avenge 9-11", and I find that more than a little depressing.

The year was 2001, people. Forget the unimaginable atrocity visited upon New York City (and Pennsylvania and D.C.).... Can we at least remember the year? On second thought, never mind. Who cares what year it was? Never mind.