Execution

[stilltrucking]

Hitler was like us cat. He was human.

Hitler is dead but...

"the evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones"

Paul Wolfowitz is living proof of that. So much of his family destroyed in the holocaust and it has come back to haunt us in Iraq because his world view was shaped by world war two.

I have managed to avoid seeing any of the video of the dangling dictator. I got a head full of too many sorrowful images. I don't need anymore.

[abcrystcats]

Lookit.

I think you seek to trivialize my POV by saying, "Can't we all just get along?"

But seriously, WHY can't we? It's a big question and it seems to encompass the entire human race, not just weirdos like Hitler. I get up every morning and wonder WTF am I doing? Statistics show that over half the human race are admitted LIARS. Everything I read, everything I've experienced in life, everything I DO, every day, proves to me that we, the HUMAN race (including and especially-- at times -- ME) are full of shit.
There is no hope. I have no hope. Someone please put me out of my misery.

Back to Hitler. Are you prepared to institutionalize millions of people? If so, go for it. Millions of Germans backed Hitler's stance about the Jews, and about Lebensraun. He got 43% of the vote, but after he invaded the Rhineland, you know what ... ? He got over 98% of the vote !!!

If Hitler's beliefs made him crazy, then order the ECONOMY sized carton of strait-jackets, because you're going to need them!

The slight difference with Hitler was that he had the power to CARRY OUT these beliefs! And he did.

As for the "getting along." I think it's weird that my CATS do this, but we humans don't seem to ever be satisfied, no matter how much PLENTY we have, and continue to commit immoral acts to get MORE.

It's weird. My cats get plenty to eat. So, if several are laying on Mom's bed, a strong and dominant cat will start washing the face of a weaker cat. I see big cats cuddling small cats all the time. It doesn't take a doctorate to know who's getting the most benefit from these little interactions.

Humans? HAH. We are LOADED with food, shelter, clothing, medical care and all the essentials and we keep SCREWING other human beings ANYWAYS.

Yah. Why can't we "just all get along?" Rodney, for all his ignorance, asked a very good question. What makes us Human Beings so great?

Can you tell me? I doubt it.

A lot of people have some smug self-satisfaction because they've never caught themselves in the the act of doing conscious EVIL. I wish that was me, but it's not. Ten years ago I woke up to the fact of myself doing EVIL for my own self-interest. I asked, WHY? Why do humans do things they know are wrong? I keep asking. I keep going back to the Holocaust for answers. Yech. The only actual ANSWER I get is because people are HUMAN. It's not an accident. It doesn't take being nuts, or bestial or anything. EVIL is a HUMAN TRAIT! We are experts at it. Some animals have the basics down, but humans have worked on evil till it's a fine art.

I am begging to be saved from this conclusion, but I keep getting led towards it. I am not (emphatically NOT) Christian, but do human beings need a divine Savior? Yes, they do. We need a miracle to save us from ourselves.

I keep looking for a way out of this damning conclusion about us, and I keep getting Hitlers. He was quite sane. It is John Toland's biography. I am into the last 10 years of his life. He was not a nut. He just had a couple ideas that were CA-CA and the power to carry them out. If his ideas make him nuts, then you've got millions of Germans to prescribe for. If his power makes him nuts, then get ready. Churchill would be hard to get committed. Hitler just had power and the beliefs together at the same time.

Because of that, 60 MILLION people died! Some in battle, some from torture, starvation and calculated overwork. This is evil. If the Second World War wasn't EVIL then I give up. And normal people made it possible.

Keep denying it. Keep saying to yourself that only a MADMAN could do all that. Your life is at stake in the belief.

Stilltrucking, it's only too true that the good go down to the grave unnoticed and unthanked. Evil usually lives on in immortality. It's just one of the many things I cannot reconcile about the human race.

I despair.

I don't know what we've done that is lastingly important, except to work hard at destroying ourtselves and others.

Even my parents, who have always been seriously optimistic, are now telling me they are glad they will not live to see the next episode in the story of the human race. I am sad.

[abcrystcats]

Back to Saddam.

He was a VERY bad man, but could we not do better than to EXECUTE him?

What makes anyone think that death is a better solution for people like this than life without power over others? I think life in a serious, maximum security prison would have been the supreme punishment for him. I don't mean because of torture or other prisoners, but because of the lack of power and the solitude.

Doreen really got me to thinking about this "capital punishment" question a long time ago. I can't see how we can ever evolve beyond our evil state if we keep KILLING the killers. We've got to do better than that.

Besides, in my humble opinion, being condemned to LIFE is much worse than being condemned to death -- that is, if your life is lived with some TRUTH in the perception of it.

Saddam could have been forced to perceive truth. So, really, could Hitler. That's probably why he killed himself.

Maybe this is totally nasty of me, but I am sorry we killed Saddam mercifully, when he could have been condemned to a life of making license plates or shirt buttons. He could have served the community usefully, so his death was a great waste of resources.

Someone, please set me straight on this. I feel my POV is twisted somewhere. My words have evil in them. Ugh.

[hester_prynne]

Indeed, back to Saddam's execution...

This is the souless, uncollective energy that has ahold of our fore folks.
I'm utterly shocked at the "swiftness" of it first of all. I mean, I couldn't believe it! It was like they had some deadline. (No pun intended, just a sweet coincidence)
And then to see it on TV! That phoney mirror mirror on the wall tv. What the hell are we thinking folks!!!??????
What is it about this killing? Was it really done for justice's sake? Or was there some unspoken satisfaction the killers needed?
It's embarrassing. No, in the name of justice crimes can be comitted, but who the hell defines justice or crime?
Killing as punishment is a warped, fucked up idea.
Disgusting is what it is.
Heinous.

Fuck redemption.
Redemption is a joke right?
(sorry Jesus...)

I'm pissed.
That's really all I know at this point.
H

[mnaz]

It's highly debatable: Basic U.S. moral authority to instigate and oversee Saddam's trial in the first place, let alone the way it was done-- the deadly circus it became. Like e_dog says, put Rumsfeld and Bush on trial next. Put the bastards who gave Saddam weapons and helicopters in the 1980s on trial.

Fuck Saddam. Yay us. Yay death.

Yeah.

[e_dog]

Statistics show that over half the human race are admitted LIARS. [bold added]

And just think, those are the honest ones!

[stilltrucking]

back to the subject line of this thread which was EXecutions

Maybe there was a reason for the rush to execute. They say he was responsible for about 250,000 deaths but he was tried for just a specific 140. Why such a rush to shut him up, execute him on a muslim Holy Day which is prohibited by their religion I believe. Maybe because the powers that be in washington DC were getting squirmy about the other 249.860 deaths that the the FUSA was or may have been complicit in ??