only losers use guns (VA Tech discussion)

[e_dog]

that or have everyone packing heat.

wild west muthafuckas.

bush the sickhypocrit has the nerve to appear and offer words of solace when he causes dozrens of such incidents in iraq.

blame bush. blame cheney the guy who goes on his own shooting spree while hunting.

[Doreen Peri]

Well it looks like eyelidlessness may have been right on target. Pardon the pun.

I'm sick to my stomach over this. Last night, after I was here talking about it on a thread on another board, I went to bed and turned on CNN and saw the photos & the video tapes the murderer mailed to ABC.

Have you seen these?

Be prepared 'cause you're bound to see them over and over and over and over. They were showing the photos in what appeared to be a loop. This wacko was posing with guns pointing straight ahead (at the viewer of the photo) and at his own head and everywhere else, ala the old Jimmy Cliff movie, "The Harder They Come" (1971?... I know it's old and not Hollywood... some of you may know it. Criminal turns himself into a celebrity posing with guns, etc.)

They also played one of the video tapes he made of himself rambling saying things like "you made me do this" and making negative reference to wealthy people and making biblical references, then referring to the two Columbine murderers as heros and martyrs! It looked like a recruitment tape... as if he were trying to recruit others to follow him and do the same thing. To me, it sounded like an echo of the eastern jihad mantra.... you know, the crazies who consider themselves martyrs when they fly a plane into a building or blow themselves up along with a restaurant full of people.

Same shit. Different day. My God, what has happened here? A martyr? For what cause? I'm shaking my head and I'm physically ill. These photos and videos will be aired over and over and over.... I just know it. He will rightly be labeled a loony tune but at the same time some crazy message about being a martyr will come through along with biblical references to Jesus' crucifixion.

The world has gone crazy and innocent bystanders are being annihilated in its wake.

I didn't sleep well. I am extremely troubled and haunted by these images. And knowing how the media works these days, he will achieve his "celebrity" status with them with all of us watching over and over and over while our poor brains get assaulted.

After I feel like I have enough information in my tiny little brain to know what information has been uncovered about this wacko, I will turn the television OFF and keep it that way.

Peace and love to you all.

.....
e-dog said

bush the sickhypocrit has the nerve to appear and offer words of solace when he causes dozrens of such incidents in iraq.

Amen, brotha.

[stilltrucking]

I was born to follow, where did I go wrong.

bohonato wrote:

In a slightly related topic, this is a great article written by Marilyn Manson written after the Columbine shootings (when the media was busy blaming him for societies ills, when the shooters didn't even like him). I'm not a huge fan of his music, but I've always loved this:

http://www.catholicboy.com/catholicboy. ... manson.asp

I think it was very relevant
Especaily this bit.

From Jesse James to Charles Manson, the media, since their inception, have turned criminals into folk heroes. They just created two new ones when they plastered those dipshits Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris' pictures on the front of every newspaper. Don't be surprised if every kid who gets pushed around has two new idols.

Arcadia said:

curious, I didn´t know about it. Maybe it´s a prejudice of mine, but it feels odd that super.structured.formal institutions (as your universities looks like from the distance) have inside themselves creative writing departments... I think I would prefer to write in a bar with some friends instead...

I never thought about it but now that I do, it seems kind of odd to me too.

[Totenkopf]

bush the sickhypocrit has the nerve to appear and offer words of solace when he causes dozrens of such incidents in iraq.

Yeah but all leading dems signed off on it, including Hill, DiFi, Kerry, Pelosi, etc. Why not include them in your criticism (and DiFi to the right of most hick conservatives).

[eyelidlessness]

Yeah but all leading dems signed off on it, including Hill, DiFi, Kerry, Pelosi, etc. Why not include them in your criticism (and DiFi to the right of most hick conservatives).

Everyone knows criticizing the liberal wing of the corporate party means you like the other liberal wing of the corporate party. Just give in and pick one.

[stilltrucking]

One of the issues involved with the Virginaia Tech killer is "crazy people" have rights too.

Crazy people have a right to take creative writting classes Crazy people got a right to bear arms too. So it seems.

They just can't pass a FAA pre solo flight physical. Not when your draft status is 4f. . . I wonder what an application for a gun license says. Does it ask you if you have had any psychiatric problems.



THe college says it had to walk a fine line of legalities about mentally ill people.

e-dog said

we need stricter gun control. and better government oversight of poets!

e-dog that is what I was getting at with my remark about "language Crimes."

that is what will come out of this "better control of Poets"
Cause the nationa rifle association won't want no back ground checks, cause we all know guns don't kill people
people kill people, guns are just innocent bystanders





I must have a morbid curiosity cause I am starting to wonder what kind of music the guy listened to, what movies did he watch.

I just can't stand to turn on the news.

I feel like I have sufficient information.

I am glad I missed Bush's comments, I will do my best not to hear them.

"The more decadent a society the more laws there are" mangled quote from memory Latin, I think Tacitus.

It could have been a coal mine disaster for all the sense I can make of it.
Suppose there is no one to blame?


"one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic."

[eyelidlessness]

One of the issues involved with the Virginaia Tech killer is "crazy people" have rights too.

Crazy people have a right to take creative writting classes Crazy people got a right to bear arms too. So it seems.

While I find the idea of "rights" problematic, so long as they are the mechanism we use to designate who can do what, "crazy people" should have the right to arm themselves. Since the state determines both your psychological status and what rights you have, every exception for rights becomes an obvious, convenient excuse any time the state wants to shield itself from the exercise of rights by its subjects.

Because a felon apparently isn't subject to the Constitution (can't vote, can't own guns, and so on), not only have felony prosecutions skyrocketed, but felony offenses have mushroomed to include basically every offense imaginable. There is a reason prison is a growth industry, and it's not because "crime" has gone up.

I wonder what an application for a gun license says. Does it ask you if you have had any psychiatric problems.

I imagine it depends upon the state. You might be surprised to know how easy it is to get a gun in some places. For instance, when I bought my SKS, not only did I walk out with it about 45 minutes after I walked in, but my SSN was optional. There is no registry of rifles or shot guns in my locale, either, so my gun isn't registered. (I did provide my SSN, but only because I have a relatively common name, and I wanted to avoid being denied on the basis of a denial for someone else who shares my name.)

What are you saying, that they should ask? I can imagine that seeming nice to someone who doesn't understand "psychiatric problems" (and someone who for some reason doesn't object to living under a government with more firepower than its citizenry is even allowed, which is terrifying), but frankly it sounds like a recipe for fascism.

Diagnosis of mental illness, and psychological and emotional disorders is out of control already. Fear and paranoia of our fellow countryman is also out of control already. Both are completely out of proportion with reality. I mean, the potential for abuse is just outstanding.

And really, having depression doesn't make you unable to responsibly use a gun (or not use a gun you own). Being antisocial doesn't either (which sounds like Cho's mental condition, if anything). Instead of trying to stop a flood by patching holes slower than they're formed, we should be addressing real problems.

Symptom: media-driven fervor over one atrocity in a sea of atrocities.
Real problem: we live in a violent society.

Symptom: some guy shot up a few privileged college students.
Real problem: we honor mass murderers and slave drivers.

Until we can get over this kind of hypocrisy, it's basically moot. You can pass whatever law you like, but until these real problems are addressed, we'll only have more atrocities and more fascism.

And really, if you're going down the dead-end road of passing laws, at least ask for good laws: ban colonialism. Ban police. I can't believe people talk about why "they" didn't "stop" this guy sooner. Cops do more violence than non-cops (excepting soldiers, who are just cops we send to other countries). If you're supporting gun control, control it from the top down (ordered by level of power or by level of atrocities committed [the list would be more or less the same, anyway]).

[stilltrucking]

I suppose if I have any interest in this tragedy it is "language crimes" or as e-dog so eloquently said "better control of poets"

That whole pyschiatric can of worms is a sticky wicket. (I think you mother will puke when she reads that metaphorr.) Nobody was more effiecient than the USSR in using psychiatry to control dissenters.

IF people are going to have guns I would hope that it be as difficult to get one as a drivers license, or as in my case a pilots license. When they saw that draft card with the 4f and then when I told them why
that was the end of my flying days.

[stilltrucking]

Bottom line is the bottom dollar
this story has got legs
and I am anxious to put my thoughts back onto less important things like the war in iraq, and supreme court decisions about abortions and what the man behind the curtain has been doing while the press has a feeding frenzy with this story..

I remember during the savings and loan scandal of the eighties when a gazillion dollars dissapeared into the hands of the mob and other interested parties, there was another story making the head lines, I can't remember what it was Maybe Michael Jackson of Madona.

My atttention span is so short I feel guilty. I think that is what Hester said. Yep shows over folks move along

Who even talks about the sniper murders in washington dc and maryland anymore?

Violent society
violent world
violent species
it is our nature
but we must struggle to rise above it
and hope one day the felaheen will rise up too.

felaheen was Kerouac's word, but he got it from Spengler who I know nothing of. But I think I know felaheen, I is one, and I am rising every day.

right speech right thought
I'm just an old lump of clay
going to be a zen-judist one day.

I sound like a preacher jack tonight
and send your love offerings to

a post office box near you or anywhere in salt lake city utah.


I am poured out
I don't have another word left in me.



thirty two dead
how many people in shock
close to home family and friends
numb with grief
how many lives touched by this
ripple effect
how many more lives did the killer take


Oh lordy will there be an outpouring of stuffed animals and teddy bears?

I am crazy my draft board was right.

[eyelidlessness]

Who even talks about the sniper murders in washington dc and maryland anymore?

We ought to. The sniper was the only reminder since 2001 that we're not safe until we deal with the problems our culture perpetuates.

Violent society
violent world
violent species
it is our nature

This is just dismissive, escapist bullshit.

If it were "human nature" to shoot 32 people, every human would do it. If it were the nature of societies to commit genocide, every society would do it. We have a culture that is fundamentally violent and destructive in ways that are not just unnatural but anti-natural. Not only that, but our society tortures us to teach us to violate our own human nature. As far as biologists and anthropologists can tell, the culture of consuming and destroying is not a part of our biology, but of our cumulative history, going back only a few thousand years, and even then most societies resisted this way of life until only a few hundred years ago.

felaheen was Kerouac's word, but he got it from Spengler who I know nothing of.

It's an Arabic word describing peasants.

[stilltrucking]

Maybe it is bullshit to you but it is my bottom line.

Geezer memory is so treacherous
I can remember being in the principals office
me and another kid with his arm sliced open and bleeding

I was always the first one to the first to pick up a weapon
A stick, a stone, a brick a sword

That elementary school I went to on the corner Pratt and Lombard streets, back in the 19 forties. Our school yard shared a chain link fence with the scrap yard next door. Once in while a jagged shard of metal would slide down one of the mountains of scrap metal and slither under the chain link fence to our side. A nice little sword.

I wonder if I left any finger prints on my mother's throat on Novemeber 22 1963

Jfk's murder and abreaction
when all my rage against women came boiling up

Talk to me about violence my friend

Yes I am a peasant,

http://www.vt.edu/tragedy/memorial_fund.php

[e_dog]

America when will you bury your guns instead of children?
Bob Dylan said that, or sumthin ta that effect.

America, there are already two
many Michael Moore movies.
Don't make us watch a sequel.
America, your killers are becoming repetitive and boring.
better 'vade Iran.
Again. and again.

[eyelidlessness]

America when will you bury your guns instead of children?
Bob Dylan said that, or sumthin ta that effect.

Ginsberg.

[e_dog]

It's an Arabic word describing peasants.

Ostwald Spengler made up Arabic to sell copy. And he invented peasants, too.

[stilltrucking]

What can we expect from a country founded by out casts and misfits
by the refuse of o teeming shores.

America god shed his grace on thee.

I used to sleep at the foot of glory
I was raised on John Wayne war movies

I was born to follow

I suppose my sin is to see the madman in my own mirror.

We are just a couple thousand years behind the rest of the world when it comes to civilization.

What did Ghandi say about what he thought of American Civilization

I think it was some like "I think it would be a good idea."

Blame it on hollywood and the voices coming out of the box in your living room

Doreen Peri wrote:

Be prepared 'cause you're bound to see them over and over and over and over. They

No I did not see them once Doreen not once, on the internet, tv, anywhere. I turnded my couriosity off, I changed the channel, i surfed to another page. I looked in my mirror instead.

But I bet plenty high shool kids have seen it. Plenty of youg misfits.

What is slouching towards anytown usa?