What am I missing here?

[jimboloco]

motor shitty shakedown, bro

but I gotta give credit where credit is due
and the lovely Hester took a risk and exposed herself
.
thereby giving rise to this incredible cosmic thread,
calling out the spirits from the underground stream.



ain't she a woman?

[whimsicaldeb]

As I said before, the ingrained densities we got witnin our complacent conformist old school painted psyches has gotta be exposed and all this hoopla about how it "wasn't that bad" is just that bullshit cracker mentality still dormant in our macho lily-white lizard brains from many generations of social conditiioning floating to the surface, much lke putrid fecal matter floating to the top of the cesspool.

Jimboloco, thank-you.

Jimboloco and Bohonato ... thank YOU.
(i've got tears...)
thank you both so much

mnaz ... bless you; for at least when as, it's clear you ask from a genuineness of heart and lack of understanding, instead of blind(ing) biases assumptions.

[mnaz]

Personally, I have no problem with firing all of 'em... but where would that leave freedom of speech and freedom of the market?

Just throwing some background in here (and I knew I'd get crucified for it). Never said it was okay; I only tried to point out that the phrase and its constituent components can be taken in various ways, and the realities of today's multimedia "shock humor" landscape in general.

And if you're going to fire one, then fire 'em all. Why should Chappelle's constant use of a racial slur be given any special pass, regardless of how clever one may regard the material?

And what Deb said: "stop dissing people just because they don't share your opinions."

Exactly.

[jimboloco]

and what really concerns me is that somehow one can compartmentalize and not see how the ingrained racist macho attitude that permeates our American mainstream culture directly contributes to the abuse of military power and so how is the war in Iraq supposedly more important than the underlying cultural mores that fuel that kind of mentality?

NOW DO YOU HAVE A CLUE?

I probably would not have even talked about this if no one had posted about it. Now I got jimboloco calling me a racist on another string about this.

I called you a latent racist, man, you are not conscious of it.

Then again, some people get offended easily in certain situations, like you here, ST, and yet you are not outraged by IMASS remark.
And Hester, your offense as you see it, Deb's "personal attack" on you, is larger than your bewilderment at all the hoopla around the IMESS mess, and MNAZ, your compartmentalization of these issues into what is vastly more important(IRAQ) and what is simply passing fluff (IMAZZ) is inconsistant and puzzling to me. And Soozen and Mytmynd, Don Imus lost his kool and cost his kids. And so it goes. I watched him too, but hey I loved that woman from LA talk radio who was on Mon and Tues, she said, "who put my chair up so high, they wanna see my boobs, one is highher than the other" but well mannerred about others except for the current nonsense coming from Tenant and that dumb Senator who was on the intel committee who was privy to the fact that Bush's claims about Iraq prewar intell was false and yet did nothing about it, etc, so her comments were well placed, but no socio-cultural demeaning of personalities. Imus has this long feud with Hillary as a "phoney' cause she dissed him once that is stood him up, so that was a part of his charm?

I don't have a problem with anyone exploring these issues, in fact, as I have read thru this entire thread, I see it as not bad, but good. I just want to caution you about being so specific that you can't see the forest only the trees.

I only tried to point out that the phrase and its constituent components can be taken in various ways, and the realities of today's multimedia "shock humor" landscape in general

and you a nappy headed desert rat
what's wrong with that
nada mucho

what is right with that
nada mucho

so the initial question was placed
why the hoopla

it was a good question Hester
I love you and I definately love Jack Tiles
probably more thn ever
and I will defend big Al Sharpton to my grave.
I was sorry to see big Don Imus call those young ladies bad names on his show
you know
now he's goonna sue
how do you do?

[whimsicaldeb]

And if you're going to fire one, then fire 'em all.

Exactly! That's exactly what I've been saying. But not only me, a lot of people are saying the same thing.

Why should Chappelle's constant use of a racial slur be given any special pass, regardless of how clever one may regard the material?

It's not! It's clearly being questioned and address (as I type) and and in fact has been for some time back now. I first heard about in 2004. But everything you're going on about is clearly being talked about in EVERYTHING I've already shared for you and the others here to read and listen too ...

...and if you just responding without taking the time to read/listen to what I've shared ... stop. Because that's also an action of dissing both a person, as well as the subject matter. That type of snubbery implies that what's being shared and whose sharing is both unimportant and valueless, and that's demeaning and hurtful.

[jimboloco]

Last evening about 6 pm I had a late admission, an "overflow" patient into our cancer unit. It was a 78 year old African-American lady with renal failure. She was wheeled in on a gurney by a large black dude, followed by her family. I says, man, you are going the long way around, then walked with them, coulda said, "968 around the corner" but instead I walked with them, made sure that she was into bed and comfortable, then brought in extra chairs for the family. I explained the set up situation, call bells, asked what she needed, set up the bedside commode, helped the nurse aide get her set, talked with the family, escorted them out of room to waiting area when lab was there, called them back when coast was clear, joked with her hubbie about the Devil Rays baseball game the night before (he was wearing a Rays cap, showed him my silver Rays t-shirt under my scrub top) gaining trust with eye contact with the younger black men in their party, and just before leaving (along with the technical stuff doctors orders and phone calls about labs, setting up IV fluids, making sure her IV was comfortable and functional, including the simple act of getting an extra pillow to place under her IV arm) set up my followup nurse with info and support until she got started. My last foray into the room, was on hearing a coughing, found that the lady's sister there needed a drink of water, which I brought her along with a small table beside her whel chair and three cepachol lozenges. It's called service and it's cooking the books for all time.

When I was down, doing recovery therapy at the Vet Center in Shreveport, 1984-87, I took a motivatinal course, "Release Your Brakes"

One of the concepts I learned about was dealing with my history of severe negative experiences. Visualise a teeter -totter, like you know, a see-saw, playground style. On one side a pile of negative rocks. They are there always. Now you gonna add to the pile of negative rocks? Or are ya gonna add to the pile of positive healing rocks. You can't erase the negative rocks. You can only pile up the positives and balance it out, hopefully tipping the scale towards the positive.

Now what are ya gonna do?
What I am doing is being acutely conscious of my racist upbringing, and the indelible sensation of discomfort that I always get when with new black families who don't know me nor I them and I engage in this attitude of gratitude for the opportuunity to serve, mind you, getting paid well for it too and it goes on my eval for higher raises as well. But underlying it is the awareness that comes from the historical de-conditining and re-conditioning social-cultural work that I have to do, along with the young black man sittiing on the windowsill by his gradmother's hospital bed, and for this I am greatful.

DAMMITT
The first dead soldier I picked up off the ground in Vietnam was a black GI the next was Hispanic, you don't think I am pissed at IMUS, well I am.

You wanna talk about service to your country? Bring it on, make my day, sorely missplaced comments by cultural insensitives who continue the current prevailing paradigm, which is on thhe way out, like an old snake shedding its skin, it's molting time.

[stilltrucking]

Are we there yet?

Huckleberry Finn is just okay with me

Lets talk about raccoons deb.

Remember that one?

Let's blame it on Roth We have been going to hell in a hand basket since 1957.

http://www.rhapsody.com/johnprine/sweetrevenge

"take it back
oh no you can't say that" John Prine

[mnaz]

Bohonato suggested that Chappelle's race-based, n-word-laced comedy was somehow exempt from this type of scrutiny due to its more clever and "subtle" execution and style... that's why I mentioned it. Perhaps he's right. Perhaps Chappelle's comedy highlights the lunacy of racism by lampooning its trappings... but that might be a stretch. I admit that I've laughed at both Chappelle and Mencia at times, and I think they both wrap effective social commentary in their satire at times, but they both push the envelope far beyond previous limits. Stern, Leykis, and Imus are probably more shock oriented for the sake of shock itself over honest attempts at satire. I don't know. I guess the point here is that there is at least some degree of subjective judgment in all this. One person may despise Imus while tolerating Chappelle and someone else may see it quite differently. So where exactly should the line be drawn, and who should decide it?

But jimbo, your points are well-taken, and I don't strictly disagree with any of them. Not really.

And Deb, your last point is valid as well. I should go back and read everything you've linked in this thread, not just bits and pieces.

[jimboloco]

Nobody has to take anything back

just feel the power, man, thazz all.
energy from the underground stream.

and i use the Huck Finn metaphor with my old guys stuck in bed
laying there with their legs crossed, like old Huck hisself
tell them, man you look like Huck Finn floating on your raft down the river
or tell them to imagine they're on a cruise

the incredible lightness of being
the incredulous density of the psyche
a piece of straw to chew on
or a pipe and a fishing pole

where is Mark Twain when we need him?

and I never thought that Deb was personally dissing Hester. That was Hester's subjective interpretation. Deb was talking about social-cultural issues. I can slam Tiles a bit, but not without love, man a true friend tells it like it is, and Hester should realise that nobody is dissing her persona. I would not want that either. It's also good, like Jack says, to be able to lighten up, yes, I couldn't sleep last night after work, too much yang energy and caffeine, smoked the last of my pot and did tai chi in the backyard patio under a full moon, at 1 AM. then got up early with my wife to socialise and see her off, then napped dreaming about a river.. Will be working this weekend again, but will carry the genuine love that I know all of you share here with me, I need all of you. You bring out the best in me.

[whimsicaldeb]

Nobody has to take anything back

Exactly... blast the pipes of communication open, let the debris pour out until things run clear and smooth, and keep moving forward.

[stilltrucking]

Hell I'll settle for John Prine

Or even John Water's
Pink Flamingo's

I got kicked off noahs ark
I turn my cheek to unkind remarks
There was two of everything
But one of me
And when the rains came tumbling down
I held my breath and I stood my ground
And I watched that ship go sailing
Out to sea.

Chorus:
Take it back
Take it back
Oh no, you cant say that
All of my friends
Are not dead or in jail
Through rock and through stone
The black wind still moans
Sweet revenge
Sweet revenge
Without fail.

I started this shit jimboloco
I was telling hester about what I thought at the begining of this thread.



Somehow Hester is a
failure as a human being
Deb has a wonderful husband and child
and hester is just a miserable excuse for a humn being
weird for someone who quotes the dalai lama the way deb does to say something like that.

I am just as hypocritical as she is

yes I see the mote in my sister's eyes
can you see the beam in mine.

[jimboloco]

don't take it back
jack
shake it off

big Don is sueing CBS
cause they didn't use the bleeping delay button
to ziplock his bad taste he left us all with

big Al knows lots of folks say he's a race baiter
and he hurts
but he's a minister
resilient
my man

halleluJA!

I once asked John Prine how he holds his liquor
he said "don't go there man"
now he has a home in Gulfport, Fl
bout a mile away

If you were here Jack
you'ld be my best friend
I swear.
but you get carried away with negative subjective thinking like

I started this shit jimboloco
I was telling hester about what I thought at the begining of this thread.



Somehow Hester is a
failure as a human being
Deb has a wonderful husband and child
and hester is just a miserable excuse for a humn being
weird for someone who quotes the dalai lama the way deb does to say something like that.

I am just as hypocritical as she is

yes I see the mote in my sister's eyes
can you see the beam in mine.

I don't think so. Nobody is comparing personal value of one over another
we are trying to dialogue with you about perceptions and opinions
has nothing to do with personal value of Deb over Hester, wow.

Hester is a wonder and a delight
with her own opinions
as are you

Deb in the Redwoods
I don't like her guns
but I like her courage.

It's like you still sticking into the interpersonal subjective suspicion stuff
why I work at service when am uncomfortable in certain situations,
like my first experience walking into a room with a gay man with AIDS, ten years ago, he had shit in bed. His gay male friends and lover were in the room. I wiped his ass, man, cleaned him up, and heard one of the guys remark as I left, like, wow, he treated us like we were all ok and normal. I was very uncomfortable at first, but hey,
when the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro. It was a positive rock on the rock pile, not to mention the Vietnamese transvestive I helped, alone and poignantly suffering, and the dying black dude with AIDS who lay there in the hallway on a stretcher as there were no beds, his fingertips turned to charcoal stubs, I never used gloves with skin contact, gripped his hand, he was so alone, told him, "be at peace with yourself" and saw his heave a sigh, and the single mom who had a last visiit with her family one evening, then after they had left, as I was helping her to the bedside commode she told me, "I have a prolapsed vagina, I will never have sex again." and what do you say to that, calll on some inner light ti chanel her way. Then the doc came to visit, he told me she asked him to "pull the plug", her IV nutrition, which I did, and she died later that night, sweet eternal rest.

We're fighting for the next level, man.


Service with a smile, man.

[whimsicaldeb]

I want to say Thank You to Doreen as well...

Doreen, Thank you for allowing this thread and the communication within it to unfold as it has. I know how much seeing others arguing bothers you ... I know how much you want us all to get along; so I'm aware of how challenging this is for you but I'm so grateful you have allow this to unfold as it will.

Thank you.

ps... I've seen you posted about arguing in the discussion section, just to let you know, I haven't had time to read that thread, haven't seen anything of it except the title.

[stilltrucking]

Jimboloco I would have deleted that one but you were too fast for me.

Imus ain't worth all this.

[jimboloco]

It is more than Imus
it is all of us
and it is worth it and you are definately worth it.

www.norespectpublishing.com