Proven Fact:

[hester_prynne]

The democrats are pussies. Just like the republicans. And anyone else who thinks they know or own anything.
I wonder if Hilary and Osama really think they fooled everyone with their weak little neigh votes. Sure, wait until it's passage is a shoe-in and then vote your big brave noes.
I'm truly disgusted to the point where you just have to laugh. Laugh at your naivete`. And then, an annoyed voice in your head says, "Okay, I get it, the government is one big dopey sellout machine that tosses out words like Democracy and Freedom because those words had power in the past"
IN THE PAST! (yes i'm yelling, at myself.)
Is there a way to just stop being a part of this? This war, this stupidity, bigotry, racism, wealthyism, poorism, prison prism?
I feel more and more like a literal cage is growing around me, and I want out before it's too late!
I'm really bummed, that officials we elected and sent a clear message to, regarding how we feel about issues, just did not represent us in the least.
Bummed that i've been so fucking stupid.
H

[mnaz]

We have a problem, and it's entrenched.

Hillary is a part of it; and so is Obama.

The problem is massive money in politics, and how it is impossible to have a sustained voice, absent the above.

Buyer beware.

[e_dog]

Hillary is a WalMart politico.

Obama is a conspiracy by the right to sabotage the Dems.

We need a radical Left party. The choice between Republicans (who are not pussies, Hester, they're fascists) and Democraps is worthless. Okay that congressman who was crying "When are we gonna beat 'em?!" (the terrorists, that is) is a pussy. But Cheney's no pussy -- he's a Dick.

[jimboloco]

well ya know we voted green once before and we got the ultra right

i am not ready to write off the dems as a coalition party
sorry bout that
i agree that frustration is ok with the mainstream folks
keep that vision

[mnaz]

I, too, am disappointed with dem Dems (not that I expected much), yet think it unfair to put too much blame on them for not quickly fixing the rotten stench of Bushco's world affairs. Bushco deceived us into the Iraq mess-- I don't buy that "faulty intel." excuse. Bull. And even if one agrees to say retroactively that taking out Saddam (one of our stooges from way back) perhaps wasn't so bad, that still doesn't explain nor justify an endless violent occupation.

Problem is, once troops are sent, the war makers hold virtually all the cards politically and psychologically, especially within such an ominous, versatile fabrication as "the global war on terror". It is politically untenable to "cut short" the war effort, short of "victory" (which of course only the war makers are allowed to define... or not).

I've defended the Dems for their 'yes' votes on the 2002 Iraq Resolution-- permission granted to Bushco to use force only as a last resort (it wasn't)-- a reasonable take on the situation, I suppose. Now I'm not so sure. Methinks they should have done more homework on this cabal of neo-con, PNAC chest thumpers before entrusting the military to them.

Of course hindsight is always 20/20. And the Sept. 11th attacks were still frighteningly seared into the U.S. psyche in '02, so maybe that's a much tougher call to make at the time, in reality. But too many people both inside and outside of Congress rubber-stamped this war and didn't ask the hard questions up front.

Why such a generally uncritical stance? Aside from the collective trauma of "9/11", I think the seeming "ease" of victory in first Iraq war 16 years ago (and pundits' and politicians' assurances of a "quick and painless" victory this time also) also played a part. "Quick and easy" military victories such as the one in '91 (especially how it was presented on CNN-- the smart bomb surgical "precision" of it) do little to convey the horrific reality of war to a sheltered, self-absorbed public. It's only when "we" start to get our ass kicked for awhile (in warmaking with poorly defined objectives) that "we" start to pay attention and lose some of that collective war appetite.

Anyway, it's a mess alright. I just wish someone would challenge the Bushies' narrow definition of "victory"... time to re-think whatever neo-con imperial door prizes and legacy the Bush crew assumed they'd get out of the deal... Time for some original, much more creative and inclusive problem solving. Far past time.

[Totenkopf]

Only one solution: MITT, the Romney man! Yeah the Mitt-Bot seems strange at first and slightly fascist, but as a good Mormon president he will reveal the Secrets of the Sacred Plates, and the Truth of the HOLY NEWTS OF FLAME, that er carried the plates from God and Jeee-suss to Joe Smith one afternoon in Ohio or whereever. Then, once we have eliminated the pagan hordes, each Man shall have his own tribe, and then his own star-planet populated by his own personal harem. Praise Moroni , man.

[mnaz]

Niiice... Yeah... Mitt's the man!

He has telegenic hair and quips a lot... not sure about a star planet, 'tho...

[Totenkopf]

Google the Book of Mormon; do some research. The pious Mormon Big Daddy is awarded a planet or something apres-mort, and he then sort of populates it with his holy Mormal concubines, until his next incarnation. Brigham Young in Space! O yeah. But there are debates as to whether it is a planet or star. But get this: Mitt is not only a MormBot: he's a Scientologist! He admires L-Ron. Whoa: str8 up piety. Now add in some SubGenius, Holy BOB and we got X DAY in the very near future.

[mnaz]

The world is just one big star child of a cult, ain't it? There's a lot of real estate out there to lord over in the infinite vaccuum of space...

I did some time in Utah... the story I heard is that the pious Big Daddy will be awarded a galaxy if he plays his cards just right... I find Utah a perplexing place; disturbing at times (vaguely similar to the landscape's vertical upheaval-- though the L.D.S. didn't originate there)...


Something I wanted to add, re: Iraq:

The idea of "we broke it, we must fix it".... really? What if, by trying to fix it, 'we' in effect continue to help break it?

[jimboloco]

Cindy Cheehan has thrown in the towel. really a complete burnout
and I can understand, tho I was never a heavy hitter like she was, I did my time in days o0f rage and anger and hopefullness, and we did end the Vietnam War
then what?
got to maintain one' self thru the fog and make every day new.
I did recently read a letter to the editor of the st Pete Times in which a local pastor states that L Ron Hubbard's educational process works well with his non-scientologist kids, he says it is a secular process. Then another reader wrote that the Montisorri system has some similarities to Hubbard's and in fact was developed earlier. I certainly think also less intense and controlling.
Ithink the Dems can defeat a Republickin Mormon. Heravon forbid, we will all be teleported to another planet, or will want to head fer th hilllllls.

I am not giving up just yet on the dumbed down dems.
but under stand the frustration.

Nader took 90,000 voted from Florida in 2000. How many of those were rebellious Dems and how many were new disenfranchised voters? plus how many more votes were lost thru systematic fraud done by the state republican apparatus, the secretary of state Kathleen Harris as super visor of elections, and the supreme court closing the deal?

I know I won't vote third party this time around.

[hester_prynne]

I mean why is Mitt even running????????????????????
It's a crapshoot.
Totem, you crack me up....

Mnaz, I have given up on the dems. I'm now praying for a hero to come along and kick bush and cheney out into the street literally. They understand cowboy language...we need a posse sort of outfit to get them out.

By the way, I just got back from a job-related training session. Been gone a couple of days... I'm tired and disillusioned from it. It was all about handling the all glorious MONEY. Fascinating, what people make careers of. The money end of Corporations, and a gas pipeline seem much the same to me.....

I've really dug reading your comments here gang. I don't like to feel disillusioned. It gives me hope to know others can see why I feel that way.
I'll get over it...

H

[jimboloco]

It is good to be disillusioned with the crapola
yes and realpolitic plays to the left as well as to th right
I wish that Nader and the Greens had got their 5% of the national vote
and
Gore had won
that would have been all right
but unfortunately the neo-cons want it all
and they will cheat
so we got to make the system honest
first
and avoid WW3
this hoopla about bombing Iran
and the family of my old Air farce pilot training roomie
Musseholi din Mohammedi
never mind that they deposed the Shah
it's still the same people
so we gotta reighn in the horses
pull back the cannons
and get somebody up there who can schmooze
or we are gonna loose everything.

congrats on the corporate crap
no wonder i dropped outa MBA school twice

the culture of the workplace can be very nice
bring your mystic soul into the place
and do not give up hope
ever

global capitalism sucks no dount
trout fishing in america
a friend behind every tree
and the souls of dead saints
weeping

[jimboloco]

I don't like to feel disillusioned. It gives me hope to know others can see why I feel that way.

john lennon said , like, "ok kids. now that we've gone thru the disillusionment process, it's time to step in and do something kick!"

i guess i relate by relativity, which is just ok, but know there is something better, like
anything is better than killing for lies and profits
and anyone is better than the profiteers of war and life and death
and anything is better than letting mentaly impaired military veterans and othher folk freeze to death because they ain't no place for them to lay their buttocks
and anything is better than fascism inspired and disquised by theocratick pseudo-xtians
and so on
and while i know that pelosi and boxer and clinton and reid and obama and kennedy will always occupy a much higher economic plateau than i will, i hope that they will at least stop some of this fucking insane shit,
and put a solid cap on the amount of influence thaT the right can fuck us with.


beyond that, it is up to us to continue to have the vision of progress and to continue advocating for that

so whether hillarious or hussainey gets in the casa blanca, i wilol be elated because i am tired of this morass of christian conservatism ruining this country

and i will keep smoking a little marijuana
and i will keep on doing zen meditations
and i will keep on scrutinizing the politicos
no matter what
meanwhile,
i will pray that cheney and bush and wolfowitzzzz
all get their just desserts, hemmorhoids