"I will not support Hillary Clinton for president"

[stilltrucking]

Enough. Enough triangulation, calculation and equivocation. Enough clever straddling, enough not offending anyone. This is not a Dick Morris election. Sen. Clinton is apparently incapable of taking a clear stand on the war in Iraq, and that alone is enough to disqualify her. Her failure to speak out on Terri Schiavo, not to mention that gross pandering on flag-burning, are just contemptible little dodges.

The recent death of Gene McCarthy reminded me of a lesson I spent a long, long time unlearning, so now I have to relearn it. It's about political courage and heroes, and when a country is desperate for leadership. There are times when regular politics will not do, and this is one of those times. There are times a country is so tired of bull that only the truth can provide relief.

If no one in conventional-wisdom politics has the courage to speak up and say what needs to be said, then you go out and find some obscure junior senator from Minnesota with the guts to do it. In 1968, Gene McCarthy was the little boy who said out loud, "Look, the emperor isn't wearing any clothes." Bobby Kennedy -- rough, tough Bobby Kennedy -- didn't do it. Just this quiet man trained by Benedictines, who liked to quote poetry.

http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/1/2006/1304

I loved tou Molly, good bye, good bye

[jimboloco]

The MINUTE someone impugns your patriotism for opposing this war, turn on them like a snarling dog and explain what loving your country really means.

so i get to write a letter to what's her name
Lynn Hawkins
who's brother is patrolling the streets of Baghdad

how do I explain to her what my loving country means?
since I am beyond the pit of hellish anger that i felt last week,
but, unlike Molly,
know that I am vulnerable to my own demons,
what do I do?

I guess this is a real challenge, and so, indeed, I still have Ms Hawkins email address.
But she is not receptive,
so what?
I can write her a letter just to hear myself think, why not,
in honor of Molly, I will do just that.

as far as Hillarious goeth, yes,
she is a schmoozer,
and I wonder if Obama's integrity will play out so that
he refuses to run as her VP?
or Bill Richardson, or anyone else

sure teetering old Senator Byrd and retiring old Bob Graham had it right,
but even they were polite, not flaming.
Where were they when we needed them on the street, in the mass demonstrations against the war?
Politely ensconced inside their professional spaces.

Do not sit there cowering and pretending the only way to win is as Republican-lite. If the Washington-based party can't get up and fight, we'll find someone who can.

Tel that to the 75,000 of us Floridians who pissed on Al Gore for Winona LaDuke and Ralph Nader, by the way, can anybody say who Gore's VP candidate was?, insipid yes they were,
and so it seems that again this next time around, we will have a quandary.
and by the way, Obama is careful not to distance himself from Hillarious, has never stated she was unfit to be president, nor has labeled her as un-forgiven for her calculation and equivocation,

lets face it,
Molly Ivans ghost lives on,
and we should be clear and accurate in our perceptions,
and the liberal dems are nowhere where we need them to be,
but, as Joe Wilson said, I will support any of these Democratic candidates this time around. I had the opportunity to speak out on Tampa Bay community radio back in October, 2000, when an Al Gore supporter was making his case on wmnf radioactivity, and dissed on Gore as more of the same, not convinced of the magnitude of the professed compassionate conservatives' bent, and stated that I would indeed follow the fervor towards a candidate and party that spoke to my concerns, the Greens, yas,
and hoped that we'd get 5% of the national vote and gain some federal election funds for the next time around,
and 25,000 votes went to Nader in Tampa Bay alone, and yes the Republickins threw out a number of ballots in Broward and Palm Beach counties, and Kathleen Harris, the repuleblickin secretary of state and the supervisor of elections stopped the recounts and the supremes on the court stuffed it, and so there ya are,
we got what we deserved.

Bush carried Florida and the nation by less than 1,000 votes.

So when Hillarious gets the nomination, there will be a boycott movement against her, but the stars are smiling upon her. This time the Repuleblickins are in such disarray, and their strongest candidate, mcCain, is having a bad time of it,
so should we again champion a third party liberal-progressive?
or should we vote her in and then sick the dogs on her?

now to that letter to Ms Hawkins and the aftermath.

[jimboloco]

http://www.studioeight.tv/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=10417
see letter i sent to her, inspired by Molly

[mtmynd]

If Hillary gets the nomination I'll puke. We've already had (or will have) 20 years, that's TWENTY-FUCKING-YEARS!!! of this Bush/Clinton domination of our politics... that's an entire generation of Americans who know nothing BUT Bush/Clinton. Add at least another FOUR YEARS if Hillary gets in and that is TWENTY-FOUR-FUCKING YEARS!! of this duo of charmers, Bush/Clinton. It's too much to think about.

This nation of over 300 MILLION PEOPLE deserve more than two mother-fucking families running our politics over and over again. We all know and have heard repeatedly, ad nauseum, the Dems trashing Bush and the Re-pubics trashing the Clintons. Do we really want FOUR MORE YEARS of that shit???

We, the People of the United States, are sick and fucking tired of that same old crap and need to dig these two well-entrenched families out of the tired old groove they have become so enamored in.

It is time for this country to vote in a President who cares about America and it's people and not cow-tow to the Corporate interests. It's time to vote in an Obama or a Richardson that more represents our national reality - that of multi-culturalism and bury the good ol'boy, white, power hungry wolves that have driven this country to the divisions that we have been subjected to in the past 20 years.

We must demand of Bush/Cheney a public apology for getting us into Iraq, for ignoring the victims of the Gulf Coast after Katrina, for getting our troops into a war that was perpetrated by lies and deceit. We've got to demand Bush/Cheney apologize for all their secretive, nefarious and subversive actions against our Constitution and our people since 9/11. To do otherwise is a continuance of our own cowardness to take back our country - We the People, for The People, of the People... not Dynasties, not self-annoited Kings and Queens or ass-kissers to the uber-wealthy.

We need new leadership across the board that will reclaim all that has been shuffled under the tables of Congress and demand of our elected leadership their pledge to uphold our guarantees of a free, safe and united country... free of corporate bribery of our officials, free of subversive spying on our citizens, free from the lies and distortions that weakened men resort to when they know they have been caught stealing, lying and cheating.

We desperately need a new, fresh and forward thinking individual to lead this country with strength, honesty and compassion. If we as a country fail to do this soon, we may very well all fall prey to an even more difficult future for our children and their children's future. The question we must all ask ourselves is "When?"

[Doreen Peri]

thank you, cecil.

well said.

[hester_prynne]

I second Doreen's sentiments M.T.
Big smoochies to you both.
H

[mtmynd]

Dor'... Hes... I appreciate your comments. Thank you!

[stilltrucking]

If she gets the nomination I would vote for Hillary. I can not think of any republican I would vote for.

[mtmynd]

truck: "If she gets the nomination I would vote for Hillary."

and if she doesn't..?

[stilltrucking]

I hope she don't get it.
I just can't think of one republican I would vote for.


I like Obama a lot.

[mtmynd]

i agree, truck... this republican field sucks, which is too bad for someone that can see a reasonable balance between a republican pres and dem congress (or vice versa). but in todays (and yesterday's climate) it isn't reasonable at all. that's in part the reason for my ranting - our country desperately needs a fresh, forward-thinking leadership from Pres all the way thru Congress. what is in there now, for the most part, is a horrible mix of cowardness and greed.

[Arcadia]

...it seems we´ll have another ex-president´s wife as a president too, this time with the ex-president still alive...

[jimboloco]

heyI've got no problems with ya'll trashing Hillarious, I just wanted to hear what ya had to say, and like I said before, if she does get the nomination and gets elected, the dogs will be let loose on her from both sides.

No wonder the Clintons, as they campaigned among adoring crowds in Iowa last week, felt not the least bit awkward in criticizing President Bush's decision to spare Scooter Libby prison time (his felony conviction and $250,000 fine stand). They may look like hypocrites or worse, but they have been pardoned for their excesses by millions of Americans who are sick of Bush and Cheney - and for good reason. Who needs to stand on moral high ground when you can stand against one of the most unpopular presidents in history?
TWO FOR THE LOW ROAD
St. Petersburg Times - St. Petersburg, Fla.
Author: PHILIP GAILEY
Date: Jul 8, 2007

I hope that whoever gets the numbination, they will also have a senate and congress that is able to give them some positive power. Like I said, even when the democrats get the Whait House back, it will be an opportunity to tuurn up the heat and work towards specific issues like changing how we spend our federal tax dollars, taxing the wealthy, taxing offshore corporations, incentives for companies to invest inside poor areas in America, funding for domestic needs, re-deployment of the military to a more sane end, etc, if you think about specific issues.

I hope that Sheehan makes Pelosi sweat in San Fran, and more progressives get into political ofice.

Hillarious will be fair game for satire... at least that is true. Hopefully Obama will do well in early primaries, but the process will not stop, it will go on and on and on. and on and on.

You all can send money to Richardson or to Obama. I gave another twenty to a street beggar last night coming home.

[stilltrucking]

Who is trashing Hillary?

Where is the the trash talk jimbo?

Molly wasn't talking trash. Do you mean what Cecil said?

Our problems go deeper than just the presidency jim.

Not long before our nation launched the invasion of Iraq, our longest-serving Senator, Robert Byrd of West Virginia, stood on the Senate floor and said: "This chamber is, for the most part, silent—ominously, dreadfully silent. There is no debate, no discussion, no attempt to lay out for the nation the pros and cons of this particular war. There is nothing. We stand passively mute in the United States Senate."

Why was the Senate silent?
In describing the empty chamber the way he did, Byrd invited a specific version of the same general question millions of us have been asking: "Why do reason, logic and truth seem to play a sharply diminished role in the way America now makes important decisions?" The persistent and sustained reliance on falsehoods as the basis of policy, even in the face of massive and well-understood evidence to the contrary, seems to many Americans to have reached levels that were previously unimaginable.
A large and growing number of Americans are asking out loud: "What has happened to our country?" People are trying to figure out what has gone wrong in our democracy, and how we can fix it.

Those of us who have served in the U.S. Senate and watched it change over time could volunteer a response to Senator Byrd's incisive description of the Senate prior to the invasion: The chamber was empty because the Senators were somewhere else. Many of them were at fund-raising events they now feel compelled to attend almost constantly in order to collect money—much of it from special interests—to buy 30-second TV commercials for their next re-election campaign. The Senate was silent because Senators don't feel that what they say on the floor of the Senate really matters that much anymore—not to the other Senators, who are almost never present when their colleagues speak, and certainly not to the voters, because the news media seldom report on Senate speeches anymore.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... 15,00.html

[jimboloco]

If Hillary gets the nomination I'll puke.

that's trash talk
i say it's ok perfect in fact also Molly was talking specifiics
very disagreeable to Ms Clinton,
I call it trashing her

either way it's ok to be disagreeable about Ms Clinton

We had a furious debate among Vets for pPeace about supporting Kerry last go-around

One fellow finally made the point that if he got elected we'd be all over him with anger and demands for accountability.

Whetever the vernacular, Molly had a wit and I got some good advice from her and leaped like a snarling dawg at the lady who called me a traitor, something that I hadn't really considered before.

The endgame for me about political accountability for somebody like Ms Clinton is to be more centered and strongly assertive with the likes of her. If she gets elected that will be an opportunity for dissent debate and a host of issues. If Obama is elected, the same opportunitites will be available, and they will be only opportunities, no guarantees.

ps I got a lot of experience with puke.
i can get an emesis basin and trade it off for a full one lickety split, empty it rinse it, and replace anpother full one, and when the tummy is finally emptied, will offer mouthwashes and water rinses, as well as give meds and place nasal-gastric tubes: I aloays use the smallest size possib;e, and soak it in hot water first to make it soft and pliable, then lubricate it with KY jell, insert gently to pass beyond the nares into the upper thrat, have the perrson breathe easily then swallow it down smoothly with an ice chip or two, smoothe flow.

You can discredit someone who deserves critical analysis and I have the right to call ot trashing, and it is ok. You wanna call it something else, tell me what you would call it.

Otherwise, fresh and forward thinking would be welcome, fine with me.

Besides, I forgave Hillary for authorising the Iraq war. I went to Vietnam, delivered land mines, artillery ammo, soldiers to their deaths, relocated Montagnards away from their homes, flew drunk with CIA dependents, flew soldiers to their deaths, puked when I flew their bodies back, and forgave myself for that. Then I woke up. Hillary is waking up as well.
say what you like, one can always hope for redemtion.
I am a murderer and drug addict, what the fuck.

So what Molly said about the calculating equivocating is what matters. Can Hillarious come on straight or is she just another curve ball?

As far as Senator Byrd goes, where was he during the mobilisatins against the war? Alone in the senate chamber.
At least the mayor of Salt Lake City has the guts to hit the street.
We are all of us incomplete, imperfect. Yet we have a potential, and the possibility of redemption. No one can undo what has happenned, but we can grow and find common cause. Hillarious, anyone.