U.S. WAR RESISTERS IN CANADA

[hester_prynne]

Man.
I love you guys, love reading your posts, you all having been way closer to this thing called war than I. I wish to God you had never had to go and fight like that. It should never have happened. It bugs the hell outta me.

I mean, wouldn't you agree that especially now, in the present times, that war as we know it is obsolete? How clear does this have to get? To every thing turn turn turn, times have changed, the world is tech, and war as we know it is clearly, and always has been clearly, folly.

For christ's sake can't we move on from all the slashing and killing and big machinery noise to win? What does win mean? I may not agree with your definition of winning.
I mean we've got to stop it.

I really do love you guys for fighting in the wars. I mean I do.
I"m so sorry you had to.
H

[jimboloco]

big machinery is a key word
what guys identify with

and when you give a guy a big machine and tell him to drive it
he will

duh
so

there are women tanker pilots now
women chopper pilots too

it's the big machines, man!

yes it is absurd

[mnaz]

Agreed-- the draft would escalate the "give-a-shit" factor many-fold-- however, there'd still be too many strings available to pull for only the rich and well-connected-- too many filthy rich, coke-snortin' draft-evadin' Dubya-types out there... Please. Let's not put the draft back on young people unless it's truly a dire circumstance...

[e_dog]

draft with NO EXCUSES.

Not for rich kids not for colleagites not for women, old men, babies. everyone is citizen soldiers.

FREEDOM ISN'T FREE.

BE THANKFUL THANXGIVINGS.

[mnaz]

Canadians are nice folks-- so are plenty of U.S.-ians.

Just the governments get in the way, that's all.


--Z

True.

You know, I wonder just how much of a threat Communism posed to The West at various stages of the Cold War... For example, were we really all that concerned about S. Vietnam going that way? Did the US policy makers really believe their own "domino theory" shtick as late as, say, circa 1972?

Maybe there was some degree of "threat to our way of life" (whatever that means), at least early on, with that worldwide Soviet land grab, etc.... but Vietnam? I don't think so.

At least the utter abomination of WW2 took out Hitler's demonstrated threat. You know, one thing I hate is the unabashed twisting and "pimping" of history from the WW2-Cold War era by today's lying sacks of neocon-- just have the Pentagon tag the next enemy of state, the next Hitler, and your military contractors are in business!

[stilltrucking]

Frank W. Buckles is a 106. With a little luck he will not be here next veterans day. Then we can forget the great war completely. The one where there was no Hitler, no soviet union, no viet cong. Just J P Morgan and company.


I once wanted to understand, ya know arbitrarly pick one war out of history and start my analysis from there. You can bet your bottom dollar that ever other twentieth century war was necessary after the great war. The war that nobody wants to remember. It is too inconvenient to the present. You looking for the reasons for Vietnam and WW2 and. Bosnia and Iraq? Look in the hall of mirrors in Versailles. Ho chi minh was there too don't ya know.

How can you talk about the wars of the twentieth century and not consider the Great War? What was the reason for that war? No body fucking knows. Some fat arch duke got murdered or was it the attack on pearl harbor, or maybe it was the USS mAddox and the USS turner JOy.

You can not start in the middle of the history of the twentieth century and think you can get a grip on it. You got to start at the begining.

The begining of history, ha.

I think it all started on October 23, 4004 B.C., according to Bishop Usher.




did you know that those who remember the past are doomed to repeat at

forget it
dont let me interurpt you
sorry you were not even talking to me
Oh well give it another 2500 years and it will all be perfectly clear.
oh monkey brains
we do have to understand don't we?






Urgent message to Pericles. Don't go to Dallas tomorrow. signed Thucydides

[e_dog]

WWI was inevitable at least far back as the Frankly Prussian War. or maybe back to ole Neopolyon. or Dec. o' Dependance.

fuck it. We lost the Cold War. capitalism one, all people everywhere lost.

[stilltrucking]

We lost the cold war?

Yeah now that you mention it, I can see the truth in that.

[jimboloco]

wait i thot edawg went republican

besides
look at china
is it an authoritarian capitalist country

the second wave of socialism will emerge

those wars were absurd
what happenned to the marxist revolutions

theda's remark about big machines, tho,
i remember i heard thaat same remark in a vet center
the love for big machines is a part of the lure towards the military
(and the sunsequent manipulation)
(my comment)

look where cuba is going
see dave the dov's poem
in sideways eight tiles
the ghost of batista

[stilltrucking]

mnaz

I called you a junior von Clausewitz and thought better of it and deleted it
I shot the messenger

It was this bit here that tripped my trigger

At least the utter abomination of WW2 took out Hitler's demonstrated threat. You know, one thing I hate is the unabashed twisting and "pimping" of history from the WW2-Cold War era by today's lying sacks of neocon—

It is good that we do not remember the utter abomination of The Great War cause that is just history.
You want to blame the war on Iraq on somebody? Neo-cons? Try Plato. Hey just call me still-Non sequitur-ing

these are the good old days
as you say mnaz everything as it should be
we are on track on time.

Big machines, yeah , I wondered why 75 percent of my trucking partners were combat veterans.

The frankly prussian war
yeah I guess so
Them Prussians got their act together too late to get their share of colonies.

[mnaz]

It was this bit here that tripped my trigger

At least the utter abomination of WW2 took out Hitler's demonstrated threat. You know, one thing I hate is the unabashed twisting and "pimping" of history from the WW2-Cold War era by today's lying sacks of neocon—

It is good that we do not remember the utter abomination of The Great War cause that is just history.
You want to blame the war on Iraq on somebody? Neo-cons? Try Plato.

Nothing I said contradicts this. I get it. The abomination of WW1 and its aftermath set the stage for WW2... Pieces of everything can be traced back to pieces of everything else, just as far back as you want to go. I was just thinkin' out loud... about Bu$hcorp's "War on Terror", about neocon politics of fear and control, and I stopped at WW2 because the neocons often pushed the Hitler angle in their runup to Iraq (Saddam painted as the Hitler of 2003, one of their excuses for preemptive military aggression, which is ridiculous).

[stilltrucking]

I think I have a good idea for a dystopian sci fi novel. I could call it It's A Brave New World Instead of using dates like 500 AF I would use 500 AH

"War on Terror", about neocon politics of fear and control, and I stopped at WW2 because the neocons often pushed the Hitler angle in their runup to Iraq (Saddam painted as the Hitler of 2003, one of their excuses for preemptive military aggression, which is ridiculous).

My point is that it is dangerous to stopp at H*tler. That is what they are counting on that we don't stop and think about "How the hell did Hitler come to power? So they lied, isn't that what the philosopher kings are supposed to do? Sorry if I seemed to miss your point. Why should I have a knee jerk reaction when he the name H*tler is used? I wonder why I feel so special You plenty of anti neo cons or what ever you call them compare Bush to H*tler. A while back the spinsters in DC were comparing Bush to Truman and Korea to Iraq.


speaking of

neocon politics of fear and control

I wonder if Rove ever studied Goebbels?


This war all about democracy today. Yesterday it was terror, tomorrow who the hell knows what it will be about. Democracy as practiced in ancient Athens during the golden age of democracy when ten percent of the population were citizens enjoying their democracy and the other 90 percent were slaves busting thier asses.

What I am saying is I think I must have a flair for the obvious too.

Check me if I am wrong about the neocons and Plato and the rest. I am an ignorant child when it comes to philosophy.

What do you know about neocons. Do you have any interest in Leo Strauss and his students at U of Chicago? Have you ever noticed how many of the NeoCons are jews? Seems like a lot, maybe not. A most of them holocaust survivors or the children of holocaust survivors. Bush is to the neocons what H*tler was to the junkers.

You going to keep spinning your wheels over Bush's lies? I been kind of torn whether I should buy clays book of peotry or get me an "Impeach Bush Tee Shirt"
wW live in such decadent times, kind of like The Weimar Republic. Leo strauss hated the weimar republic -I read somewhere. The neo cons want to save the hoi polloi from themselves. Don't you love that decadent art of the twenties.

Signed
Puckered up in texas

Sorry I butted into your conversation with norman.

I think the truth will out about bush, not in time to impeach him but maybe they can strip his immunity after jan 20 2009 and try him for high crimes or something. That is my pretty thought for today. Better yet have a plane waiting at Andrews AFB and give him 24 hours to leave the country. I am sure Albania would be happy to have him.

Do you believe in divine punishment?

Sorry Norman
is it time to say High Jack again

done editing
except for typos

[Doreen Peri]

Just wondering, 'trucking... why do you edit the name HITLER to leave the i out of it, replacing the i with an asterisk?

just curious

[stilltrucking]

I am always curious why some people spell G*d like that. Not to mention His holy name?

For my grandmother it was just the opposite she could never say the name h*tler , she never used his name.


I guess it is a childhood superstition doreen.
She never once mentioned his name, it was alway "him" and she would mimic spitting after she referenced "him"

I was born before WW2, my life was congruent with his for five years . Feels weird to have been contempory with "him"



I just don't like to read his name, nothing to do with all this

sorry I got off on my soap box about his-story
No good reason for doing it doreen,
just an idiosyncracy of mine.
makes no sense
I just don't like seeing "his" name in print.

Speaking of being curious:
Sometimes I am curious if the word Neo Con is a code word for the jews.

So many of them are. But what Bush's excuse is I don't know.
I just want to see him go
Singing happy days are here again
I wish.

Bush promised to fight Hitler


Hitlers, Hitlers and more Hitlers


Whoever is next on the War List is always The New Hitler and the country they lead is always The New Nazi Germany. Anyone who wants the new war is the brave and glorious Churchill. Everyone who opposes the new war is the cowardly appeaser Chamberlain, willing to allow Hitler to Take Over the World and impose Caliphate and burquas and humiliation on everyone. That's the level of advice which both George Bush, the current President, and Rudy Giuliani, the leading GOP presidential candidate, have chosen to receive and -- by all appearances -- follow.

sorry mnaz hard to contain my irrational exhuberance at the mention of H*tler's name.
I am sorry I butted in. Truly I am.

Just my vanity and fear.

[Zlatko Waterman]

Ladies and gentlemen-- good digital friends:

I'm reading Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.'s JOURNAL 1952-2000.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_M._Schlesinger,_Jr.


Schlesinger, in his long, liberal life, saw a good deal of the 20th century. His well-composed and thoughtful journals show his fears about the "loss of faith in government" in the U.S.. Another phrase he uses ( in fear) is, "When people can't believe in government, then they have trouble believing in anything else . . ."

A.S., Jr. was a smart man, and always on call to the Kennedys. He was a strong Nixon hater and a "nostaligizer" about those who worked for and with FDR-- as well as respecting certain ( now almost forgotten) politicians like Averell Harriman, whom he considered both a moral and a practical soul.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Averell_Harriman

I think his attachment to Harriman is part and parcel of his reluctance to trash Harry Truman, and his nostalgia for FDR, a president who DID change things and was not gunned down, like the Kennedys-- or ended his career to Prez in one big unfortunate splash ( you know to what I refer) like Teddy.

Things were rotten in Denmark in 1972-- when Watergate wasn't even an issue-- yet. When Nixon resigned on August 9th, 1974,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_Resignation



having been elected by an enormous margin-- his "silent majority" supporting him-- he was pardoned by Gerald Ford, and thus expunged of all wrongdoing. Nixon persisted as a diplomatic envoy and analyst ( if that isn't too dignified a word for him) in U.S. -Chinese affairs, among other responsibilities. In short, he was trusted by people in high places.

I have visited the Nixon Museum and Library. It's a fantasy farm, but intensely interesting.

It's hard to imagine who Nixon's equivalent might be today-- Guiliani maybe? But R.G. isn't paranoid enough. Podhoretz ( R.G.'s foreign policy advisor) is no Kissinger . . .

Say bye-bye to privacy as the digital age becomes even more digital. When cell phones are mega-computers in the hand.

CIA deep in the superpower of Brazil/Argentina-- their brokerage with China of everybody's future.

Mergers of hemisphere with hemisphere.

Hang on-- digital friends.

Happy Holidays, too.



--Z