is the truest emotion
you were born
for shame
you died for your sins
i for mine
we for ours
theres no payin
the debt
once the bookies start bookin
accounts.
shame is
necessity.
necessity shame.
on you.
on you.
Christ died
for our sins.
We die with Christ.
We are Christ.
We are lesion.
shame
drinkin'
Boy, I think you and me should hit the bars some night. We could burn the shit down with the flames of our pain. Look me up if you find yourself in the Northwest Territories.
Leave the letter that never begins to go find the latter that ever comes to end, written in smoke and blurred by mist and signed of solitude, sealed of night.
-James Joyce
-James Joyce
drinkin'
God damn I'm not sure why i'm seeing double tonight....
oh wait....
oh wait....
Leave the letter that never begins to go find the latter that ever comes to end, written in smoke and blurred by mist and signed of solitude, sealed of night.
-James Joyce
-James Joyce
-
Totenkopf
-
Totenkopf
Rilly the Chapbook of Jeezuss--Golgotha Blues---seems fairly banal anyway. Read the Beatitudes: one nearly hears like some ancient Toastmaster or sort of midwestern lutheran consoling the multitudes. Book of Matt (assuming Matt was like capable of veracity----a rather large leap) itself is odd.
Some decent greek myths (Perseus) or more interesting platonic dialogues, even the best sections of the dhammapada (whoever wrote that was one way trippy cat) put most Screepture to shame. Nietzsche knew the score on that teary-eyed byatch Paul of Tarsus.
The later gospels are sort of interesting, mainly because they appear to be all apocryphal, a fancy term for plagiarized or forged ( the Books of Peter are probably the work of roman cops). The Book of Rev., though that wins the prize for whack-job religious lit.: sort of early Manson barked that, most likely. Even TJ cut it out from his very abridged NT.
All pretty much meaningless (even Fritz N.) for existence post-Hiroshima. No celestial trumpets or great hos with brass shoes in 20th century, were there. Where was Jeeezuss during the concentration camps, or gulags, 'Nam, etc.? Where's the Jeeezuss for the millions of starving, diseased, impoverished? Indeed the churchies still try to sell Jeezuss to los pobres when the people need shekels, houses, food, and clean ho's with contraception. You were better as a commie, e.
Some decent greek myths (Perseus) or more interesting platonic dialogues, even the best sections of the dhammapada (whoever wrote that was one way trippy cat) put most Screepture to shame. Nietzsche knew the score on that teary-eyed byatch Paul of Tarsus.
The later gospels are sort of interesting, mainly because they appear to be all apocryphal, a fancy term for plagiarized or forged ( the Books of Peter are probably the work of roman cops). The Book of Rev., though that wins the prize for whack-job religious lit.: sort of early Manson barked that, most likely. Even TJ cut it out from his very abridged NT.
All pretty much meaningless (even Fritz N.) for existence post-Hiroshima. No celestial trumpets or great hos with brass shoes in 20th century, were there. Where was Jeeezuss during the concentration camps, or gulags, 'Nam, etc.? Where's the Jeeezuss for the millions of starving, diseased, impoverished? Indeed the churchies still try to sell Jeezuss to los pobres when the people need shekels, houses, food, and clean ho's with contraception. You were better as a commie, e.
interestin'.
the beatitudes seem quite the prime example of Xtian scripture scourers endlessly massaging and tweaking interpretation to get them to fit more neatly into doctrine... to tie them into Isaiah's prophecy, to explain how these apparent "good deeds" could in themselves grant entry into "the kingdom of heaven". (doesn't seem to work so well with christ died for our sins, if read in the simplest way).
btw, how is it 'meaningless, post-hiroshima'? where was jeezus during the concentration camps? forgotten. trampled. by greed, arrogance, and violent agression; a long run of self-actualized, self-imposed hell on earth. can't put that on jeezus, can you? that's just it. we all try to put too much on that cat jeezus. hmm, 'that cat'... i didn't just say that, did i?
the beatitudes seem quite the prime example of Xtian scripture scourers endlessly massaging and tweaking interpretation to get them to fit more neatly into doctrine... to tie them into Isaiah's prophecy, to explain how these apparent "good deeds" could in themselves grant entry into "the kingdom of heaven". (doesn't seem to work so well with christ died for our sins, if read in the simplest way).
btw, how is it 'meaningless, post-hiroshima'? where was jeezus during the concentration camps? forgotten. trampled. by greed, arrogance, and violent agression; a long run of self-actualized, self-imposed hell on earth. can't put that on jeezus, can you? that's just it. we all try to put too much on that cat jeezus. hmm, 'that cat'... i didn't just say that, did i?
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Totenkopf
Assuming that He's part of, if not identical with the Big guy--as the story goes---you sure can. Tradition says "God" can intercede, yet He chooses not to. So that traditional view's either wrong, or He can intercede (say to prevent Hitler and/or Stalin or plagues, earthquake, tidal waves), and yet chooses not to, so all the benevolent jive (and really Scripture) was just BS, and god = satan (either way, assuming monotheism, God does control "evil", so He could intercede to stop Lucifer, and chooses not to. So the point holds).a long run of self-actualized, self-imposed hell on earth. can't put that on jeezus, can you?
That all seems rather absurd, so some rational humans might assert that monotheism doesn't hold (and that Jeezuss was just some old toastmaster, perhaps a kind and wise man, but not exactly the son of God). Kind of boring, but there's something at stake when people invoke religious tradition.
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hester_prynne
- Posts: 2363
- Joined: June 26th, 2006, 12:35 am
- Location: Seattle, Washington
- Contact:
Indeed, shame and jesus are big business.
always have been.
Sorry folks, i ain't buying it back now that I know.
Nope I sold shame to the junkman and believe you me, when I see those shame salespeople I give them two middle fingers and a razz. (Oftentimes, when I see them it's suddenly easy to let out a real razz even, straight out, long and loud and smelly, like an arrow from my butt!)
H
always have been.
Sorry folks, i ain't buying it back now that I know.
Nope I sold shame to the junkman and believe you me, when I see those shame salespeople I give them two middle fingers and a razz. (Oftentimes, when I see them it's suddenly easy to let out a real razz even, straight out, long and loud and smelly, like an arrow from my butt!)
H
"I am a victim of society, and, an entertainer"........DW
Yes, God could intercede. The kingdom of heaven might even be realized somehow as a miracle of creation & consciousness. God could be us!! Weeelll... OK OK, maybe not. But yeah, seriously, God as omnipotent, omniscient Supreme Being introduces all kinds of logical, moral and metaphysical problems into the mix-- free will v. predestination, the origin of evil, etc., the whole nine yards. Best to take Jesus' wisdom more at face value and not hang too much unwieldy doctrine from it, if y'ask me. Which you probably didn't.
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tinkerjack
- Posts: 987
- Joined: May 20th, 2005, 7:27 pm
- Location: a graveyard in Poland if I was lucky
mnaz wrote
I can't imagine time
I can't imagine God
All I got to work with is metaphors such as Einstein's God
damn good post e-dog
please pardon the ramble
I can't imagine spacei can't imagine time; it was never worth the time,
I can't imagine time
I can't imagine God
All I got to work with is metaphors such as Einstein's God
damn good post e-dog
please pardon the ramble
Robert Stetson Shaw.You don't see something until you have the right metaphor to let you perceive it.
Yeah, e_dog (& hest). The shame thing. (and the eternal debt/payment thing). I remember that sprawling suburban fundamentalist church from my youth, and it was way big on both. What a dour, accusatory place it was at times, despite the soaring architecture, despite repeated messages of the good news. I still remember the day my Sunday school teachers came to me (at age six) and told me in a loving way that I needed to accept Jesus as savior or risk eternal punishment. No choice, really. I was appropriately scared. Shame had little meaning at that point.
Last edited by mnaz on January 30th, 2008, 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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