Tell Me About Marriage

[sooZen]

Maybe I should keep quiet...such rampant cynicism is understandable if you think of relationships in the light of failures and negativity.

Here is a Cecilism:

Relationships become difficult when they reveal weaknesses within ourselves

I think my marriage has been the best thing that ever happened to me and I am sure my mate will agree that he is a damn happy man.

We don't need to explain it, we just live it. At least I know (and trust) that someone will always be there for me to share what life entails. Corny? Maybe, but we have worked really hard at this marriage and reap the benefits, too numerous to list.

Okay, I'm done. Back to your marriage is for wimps...try staying married and HAPPY for as long as we have...I dare ya!

[mtmynd]

You betcha, babe!

True... something like 50% of current marriages end up in divorce.... but what of the remaining 50% ? Those are the ones that don't run around and tell their friends how shitty marriage is. Is the glass half full or half empty?

We are friends with 6, maybe 7 couples that have been married as long (or longer) as we have. We also have several single friends, both male and female, a few divorced, many more never married. I can't really say those folks are truly happy... they talk about relationships with longing.

[westcoast]

I admire you both (Cecil and SooZen). I was married for 11 years. We married far too young with little support and it was inevitable that we divorced. However, we remain best friends. In fact, we met today for breakfast in a local restaurant.

I still wish it could have been forever. There are many benefits to long-term relationships and whimps definitely need not apply.

~westie

[Doreen Peri]

You two are the luckiest couple I know.

On the internet and in real life.

Except my parents who were married 45 years before Dad died in 1996.

Mom is still in love with him.

That's the example I strive for.

I believe in the beautiful possibilities of such an intimate and trusting partnership.

I want that.

I truly want it.

And I know others do too.

One day maybe.

Unfortunately, mtymind and sooZen.. you two are the exception rather than the rule.

I hope your wisdom expressed publicly can somehow change that for even one person.

[mnaz]

You know, I can see it both ways. Marriage, at least in this century, for the most part, is not strictly an "arrangement" for financial or social advantage, nor is it for wimps, or hiders, or anything like that. Not really. Nor is being single necessarily any of the above things either. It takes guts to live one's life, be it single or married, and the social games and perceptions must all be taken in stride.

[sooZen]

Unfortunately, mtymind and sooZen.. you two are the exception rather than the rule.

Well Dor, I guess in some circles we may be considered an exception but it is certainly not the case in ours. As mtmynd responded, we do have many friends that have been married as long or longer than us, and we have known most of them since before we were married, some since high school! One of the couples never married in the legal sense but still stays together in a "married" relationship.

Our single friends are mostly divorced or in one case gay and not in a relationship. Those are "looking" still for that someone to spend their lives with, whether in a marriage or not.

Truth is, I don't believe a legal union is all that important except for the raising of children. If someone doesn't want kids, why get a legal document? The real unfortunate thing is that women are left to raise children on their own without the father's taking responsibility. Women do a great job at this task but it is because in most cases, they have no choice. Marriage is not for wimps but neither is fatherhood and real men are there for their children, no matter what their status of marriage or relationship with the woman they fathered their children with.

Happy Mothers Day you mothers! My stetson is off to you for I know what a hard job you have. And for you single mothers, my deepest respect and kudos, you guys deserve an extra special Mother's Day!!!

(((hugs))) and smacks

[Doreen Peri]

You know, I can see it both ways. Marriage, at least in this century, for the most part, is not strictly an "arrangement" for financial or social advantage, nor is it for wimps, or hiders, or anything like that. Not really. Nor is being single necessarily any of the above things either. It takes guts to live one's life, be it single or married, and the social games and perceptions must all be taken in stride.

That's perfectly stated, mnaz. Really well said.
_____________

SooZ.... I don't know about "some circles." I do know that it's repeatedly quoted in the media that "more than 50%" of marriages in the U.S. end in divorce. That makes yours the exception. I'm glad to hear you have many friends who have been married so long and are happy. Maybe it's regional and that's where the "some circles" comes in. Maybe in your part of the country more people stay together.

I do have 2 sisters who have both been married for over 25 years and they're both very happy. It's not like I don't know anyone whose marriage hasn't worked. I really should have included them in my previous post when I mentioned you and cecil and my parents. But I agree with the statistics. More than half of the people I know have gotten divorced.

Happy Mother's Day to you, too! And thank you! I think I'll give my daughter some $ so she can take me out to lunch.

[sooZen]

westie,

We married far too young with little support and it was inevitable that we divorced. However, we remain best friends. In fact, we met today for breakfast in a local restaurant.

You may have married too young but the fact that you remain friends shows how 'grown-up' you are. That is wonderful!

Mark...yep, just living takes guts and I have a couple of friends that are perfectly, perfectly happy with their single lives and will remain so the rest of their lives. Which according to research may be shorter than men that marry or have long-term relationships. It seems relationships have a way of nurturing one that single-ness or taking care of oneself does not provide. I know in our case that sometimes, we don't take especially good care of our selves but we do make sure the other is taken care of. Women tend to be better at singleness than men or at least they take better care of themselves in the long run. So, take care!

Dor,

SooZ.... I don't know about "some circles." I do know that it's repeatedly quoted in the media that "more than 50%" of marriages in the U.S. end in divorce. That makes yours the exception. I'm glad to hear you have many friends who have been married so long and are happy. Maybe it's regional and that's where the "some circles" comes in. Maybe in your part of the country more people stay together.

Welp, if we are in the 50 percentile, I don't think it makes us an exception...does it? The divorce rate for our area is probably just about the same as any place and because of the culture here, maybe higher because many Hispanic men think it is okay to have a wife and a girlfriend, both with children...I know many examples of that.

The 'circles' I was referring to was the circle or tribe I belong to in relationship to singles that tend to hang with mostly other singles. We tend to see our single friends in one on one situations whereas our married friends tend to group...why? I am sure there are many reasons, comfort maybe?

Anyways, I do hope you get that lunch! Have a great day and say hey to your daughter and tell her I think she is one very lucky gal to have a mother like you.

[e_dog]

What things good can we say about long-term marriage?

Only that the couple didn't kill each other earlier.

The fact that there is a few good marroiages that work proves nothing.

Not all soldiers in Iraq will become casualties. Still an awful war.
And still an institution discriminate 'gainst gays.


Church is Trooth.

[judih]

having a long-term relationship is a delight, that's for sure. Friends and lovers or either - it's a grand thing to have people to love and show us love.

i've moved around so much that it's amazing to me to find friendship.

As for marriage, call me superstitious, but i don't wanna get married, legally. The first time was such an utter mistake - i knew it on the way to the Courthouse and i denied it for a few years and then i knew it again and well, the whole thing put me off the idea of having a ceremony.

This relationship of mine (ours) has lasted almost 30 years and i'm not sure if it's luck or just plain delicious serendipity, but it seems to be working so far.

Tricks of the trade? Like each other, grow and enable the other to grow. Respect the other's principles. Laugh together. Relax together. Know each other's moods and wait for them to pass. Listen to the other. Don't blame the other for your own shortcomings.

Abuse, hatred, violence - not good things to have around.

Doing healthy things together makes me happy.
The more positive energy, the better.

If one is unhappy, the relationship will fall into despair. The couple-ness is a safeguard - one can help the other balance out.

that's my take.
On the kibbutz, there are quite a few of long-term couples and couples who are happy together - you can see it - there's no hiding. There are divorces and re-attachments. In such a closed community, people detach and re-group and life keeps going.

But still, marriage seems to promote a fairy tale concept - a huge party, a white dress, all on a fine day when who knows what the future will bring. i can't quite understand that leap into committment.

But that's me! i'm not one for long-term planning. i came to Israel for a month and i simply stayed, without a decision to do so. Maybe it's semantics. Here i am since 1978, here i am in a monogamous relationship since the end of 1978, but who knew and who knows? Life is filled with surprises.

happy mother's day to all those who have one, had one or are one. Our bodies, ourselves, our hearts keep on ticking.

[Doreen Peri]

SooZ - the statistic is "more than 50% of marriages end in divorce" which makes yours an exception rather than the rule. It's not a half full or half empty question if the statistic is true. But who knows if it's true? Maybe it's not and more marriages stay together than divorce. Beats me.

Thanks for the "tribes" explanation. I thought you meant by "circles" something different. Leave it to me to read between the lines. I don't hang out with anybody in real life other than my family really and most of my sisters are married. Two out of three. There are four of us. Half of us aren't. heh ...

Most of my friends are here online.

You're right about various cultures. It's a real shame that most (and yes, most is the operative word) of the black families I know, the father isn't there to raise his children. This is common in that culture. A wife and a girlfriend (several girlfriends also with children) is also common. In my part of the country, though, it is not so of the hispanic population. Almost every hispanic family I know, there is a husband who stays with the family and does not leave his wife. So, I do think there are cultural differences depending on location, also.

I agree that staying friends with an ex is a great thing! I am friends with all of my exes and they are very special friendships. I was thinking of throwing a party and inviting them but I didn't have the funds to feed all those people. LOL!

I wish you also, a wonderful motherhood celebration today! You deserve no less.

......

judih, I should have included you in my list of those who I admire for having a long lasting long term relationship. 30 years! Wow! Your relationship is inspiring!

I agree that getting legally married is not necessary and can be a fairy tale concept.

Tricks of the trade? Like each other, grow and enable the other to grow. Respect the other's principles. Laugh together. Relax together. Know each other's moods and wait for them to pass. Listen to the other. Don't blame the other for your own shortcomings.

Abuse, hatred, violence - not good things to have around.

Doing healthy things together makes me happy.
The more positive energy, the better.

Well said! Beautiful!

And happy Mothers Day to you!!!!!

Life is filled with surprises.

It sure is! That's the fun part. I'm always ready to be pleasantly surprised.

......

And on that note, I'd like to thank my dear friend Lightning Rod for posting this most interesting topic.