Rapes in the military

[Doreen Peri]

Is that a poem? Or you just like to break prose into lines?

Hey, Clay, that's exactly what I thought you were saying. And I say nonsense. I don't buy it for one minute. Why?

Because let's say there's a 16 year old child, a teen, a young girl, who's stupid enough to get too high one night. That doesn't give boys the right to take advantage of her. She doesn't have the chops at living life to know how to hold herself with such conviction that she says hands off. Males do NOT have the right to take advantage of a girl in a vulnerable state! NO!

At NO time is it OK to rape a person and nobody asks for it. Nobody. At ANY time when a woman says NO! and STOP, she means NO and STOP and there is no excuse for rape! None! I wrote a piece called "Amanda" which I posted here several years back. It's a dialogue. You probably remember it. It's about a married couple playing sex games and at one point, she decides she doesn't want to play and says NO and STOP and he doesn't. Did she ask for it? NO, she did NOT ask for it when he raped her. Do a search to find the piece if you'd like to read it again.

And the soldiers? Well it's a power game. A woman in the military do not ASK to be raped by the men who are bigger, stronger and physically able to take her down even if she parties with them, drinks with them, whatever. If she says NO, it's NO and that's it!

Those men are bullies and controllers and sickos and sexually overpower the women because they CAN! Not because the women "asked for it."

You said

yes, victims invite their fantasies

Do you really think that women who get raped have a fantasy of getting raped? If that were the case, it wouldn't be rape!!!!! It would be willing participation!

This type of attitude really gets me upset, as you knew that it would.

Fighting sexual abuse is part of my life's work as I STILL live with the pain of the rapes and the difficulties they have caused me in my life many years later! I hate those guys who did that to me! I honestly would like to find them and send them to prison! A little too late now!

This might sound a little unforgiving because it is... but I heard that one of them died of a drug overdose and I hate to say this, but I was happy to hear it. Sad, huh? Well, my life was fucked up because of it!

I will fight sexual abuse for the rest of my life! Nobody asks for it!

It needs to STOP!

[mnaz]

Doreen, if I read correctly a while back, the Army lowered or perhaps eliminated some of it's restrictions on prior criminal record for new recruits. That's what I meant.

[constantine]

not everybody is as adept at carrying themselves as you claim to be, clay baby, but that does not legitimize rape. i can step on insects sadistically and though i have the advantage that enables me to do so, i don't exercise my capabilities even though i can. i think it goes a little deeper than blaming the victim for his or hers perceived weakness. there comes a point when societal restraints keep one in check or should; obviously some are psychologically impaired enough to not be curtailed by social restraint. i think that's one of the reasons we have prisons.

[Doreen Peri]

mnaz.... I see. I didn't know that. Thank you!

constantine ..... i totally agree with your statement.. well said

[Lightning Rod]

connie baby,

I could make a woman out of you in a minute. But why would I bother?

I'm not blaming the victim or advocating rape. Read my Body Sovereignty manifesto.

The problem here is that we can't help but project our own experiences and insecurities on this discussion.

If you think that how you carry yourself doesn't matter, I would like to see you in the yard sometime. Some people have 'sucker' or 'victim' written on their foreheads.

see you in the yard, connie baby

[Doreen Peri]

or as in the case of the soldiers
you can get in trouble by playing out of your league
this happens often when girls wanna play with the big boys

By the way, that's a very sexist comment.

Since when aren't women allowed to be soldiers? Since when is joining the military out of the woman's league?

Even though I've known you for some 6 years now, I'm sitting here shaking my head at the absolute arrogance and sexism of this statement.

I already addressed the other sexist statements you made.

Goodnight.

[Doreen Peri]

Clay....

Your personal assault should be moved to the Dumpster. You're very rude.

Goodnight.

[Lightning Rod]

doreen, you've known me for closer to eight years, but time flies when you're having fun.

You know I'm a sexist. I think women are superior in every way. Well, almost every way.

I don't see any personal assault here. Dino is a big boy, he can take care of himself.

[Doreen Peri]

I met you in 2002.

I don't go for childish playground antics.

You've ruined the discussion for me.

It was important to me.

Oh well.

cya.

[Lightning Rod]

if you can't learn it on the playground it will probably elude you for the rest of your life. Isn't that the subtext of this conversation? Things that happen or don't happen to you when you are young will always live inside you?

I'm sorry if I ruined the discussion for you by participating in it. Get a room.

[e_dog]

It seemed to me that they were all saying that rape of young ladies is a normal, regularly occurring event and that women should just accept the fact that it happens. [...]
e-dog... why are men still barbarians? Are women also barbarians?

it's 'regular' in that it happens all the time, but, no, women should of course not accept it. they should fight back.

women are not barbarians enough. they ought to carry guns and blast any fool that tries something, heck they ought to preemptively blast any man in sight.

only violens cann defeet violens.

women's mvt. needs some black panthers. the PINK PANTHERS!

[stilltrucking]

Clay your sense of irony amazes me. Were you asking for it when that guy smashed your teeth down your throat, or were you just trying to be helpful?

e-dog you honor me, or maybe you are just trying to insult constantine.

Yeah got dam those Huns, raping nuns, killing babies. Thanks to the Hearst Newspapers, the British Empire's propaganda and Woodrow Wilson the world stayed safe for democracy.

Testosterone 101. Kill it or fuck it. Matriarchy is no myth, women got along very well as hunter gathers, and men had it made just laying around in the shade getting high like long haired country boys. What the hell went wrong? Some people blame it on the Jews. Was Eve Jewish?

Mnaz is right the military has dropped its standards. I have read here and there that gangs are increasingly a factor in the military. .


Doreen I was a woman hater. Constantine got a point about it starting with the mother. I come dam close, too close to strangling my mother. if not for Dr. Albert Hoffman's magic bullet I would have never found my way back to my mother. She became my friend again because of that. Something I have been trying to write about for years.

It was Plath's writing that made me realize that I was woman hater. I have to wonder at the way Clay uses Plath to needle you. He can really play on your fears. It must be something he learned from Karl Rove.
No wonder considering the way Plath has become the model for the suicide doll industry that has grown up around her. Poor woman, now they say it was a fatal bout of PSM that drove her over the edge. Hard for a man not to feel lucky not to have to go through that. No wonder the Talmud has that prayer thanking the creator for not making us women. It was a wonderful moment in my life when I learned to have compassion for women. thank you Dr Hoffman, thank you Saint Sylvia. Rest in peace Ted Hughes, your daughter loved you.

Doreen I am glad you had such a good relationship with your mother.
I wish you my sister had been as fortunate.

What interests me most about the Bell Jar is the relationship between the mother and daughter. It parallels my sister and mother.

Fathers compete with their sons, but mothers devour their daughters


WOMAN All it is unwise to know about her

well I guess I should hit the submit button now and see what nonsense I have put in this text box

one more thing
Constantine is right, I have heard women tell me the same thing, rape is not about the sex, it is about power.

I fear women D, I fear anyone that can have that much power over me.
I suppose that is why I will die still practically a virgin.
not sure what emoticon to use after that statement


Clay the more write about it, the more I reminded of yabyum's old tag line
"yeah I know it fucking hurts"

I wonder how he is doing, I think he might be a daddy by now. I hope he is okay, mrs yabyum too.

[e_dog]

'pologies stilltru' i just thought whenever someon talks about anthropology and history it must be you.


peace.

[stilltrucking]

Hey I was honored, I considered it a compliment.
You ought to appologize to constantine, he should feel insulted that anyone thinks his posts have any semblance to mine. That guy can write, I mean really write. Glad to see you back. I been trying to back out of here for years. But the compulsion to scribble is too strong.

One more thing Clay
At least you did not give her a headache this time.
Don't you hate when that happens?

[constantine]

listen clay head, i'm not interested in your prison fantasies. you swagger a lot, but to me the subtext is obvious. don't embarrass yourself anymore than you normally do. the day you can intimidate me is a day without orange juice. it just ain't gonna happen.

e-dog, to be mistaken for truckin is a mistake i can live with happily.

truck, thanks!