Virgin Nary

[Lightning Rod]

Virgin Nary

nothing sadder than an old whore
her product is outmoded, don't sell anymore
there are newer models on the floor

the make-up gets thicker, the clientele
well, not as classy as it used to be
and there's no 401k

like any other athlete is sad
when they try to play past their prime
and resort to steroids and surgery

the hopeless cases will try to join the church
any door that's open when you're in a lurch
sanctimony sounds like sanctuary, close enough

The only thing sadder than an old whore
is a reformed whore, a reborn virgin
too bad, madam had management potential

[Doreen Peri]

sad yeah
bigtime

i agree

[mnaz]

Immaculate deception?

[K&D]

I'm one to write and rewrite but i don'tknow i suppose i came up with this in response to clay, not directly just you know the critic of women, esp older women is a subject "liberals" have had on their agenda for a while to me its just another symptom of matchismo and privledge to a certain degree even among "liberals"


The New Left were all pasty faced
The old will learn to take stock
They carred rulers to measure the size of their….

But they haven't seen it all just yet!

[Doreen Peri]

I'm one to write and rewrite but i don'tknow i suppose i came up with this in response to clay, not directly just you know the critic of women, esp older women is a subject "liberals" have had on their agenda for a while to me its just another symptom of matchismo and privledge to a certain degree even among "liberals"


The New Left were all pasty faced
The old will learn to take stock
They carred rulers to measure the size of their….

But they haven't seen it all just yet!

I don't think being a critic of older women is on the "liberal" agenda at all K&D.

I do agree, however, that it is just another "symptom of machismo," as you stated.

.........

Clay, I forgot to state in my previous comment that the saddest part is women who chose to be a whore to begin with.... not matter what age. What a self-demeaning occupation. Very sad.

[stilltrucking]

"gimmie that old time religion"

I think there is a book called "The Harlot By The Side of The Road" totally forgot what is is about.

I can only speak for men of a certain age.

Christz K&D I used to be circumsised,
It is a woman's face I think more than any other feature that matters most to her I think. Just an opinion I formed after reading something Emma Goldman wrote about an assasination attempt She said she was more fearful of being disfigured than being killed, she reflected later.

thanks for the interesting comment, I was still pretty crazy when the new wave of feminism swept over my college campus in the early seventies. We were just a cow college so I guess we was behind the times.

But even so
interesting coment
the more I learn about the first wave of feminism the weirder it seems, or at least the bits about eugenics.

Glad to hear you stuck it out, looking forward to seeing some clips. Have you checked out Jacob? Done some interesting good work posted here.

Funny stuff a lot of it.

But I wish he would pick on somebody his own age, seems like he always wants to argue me.

spontaneous gibberish
correct typos later
maybe
in cyberpalship
crazy jack
son of crazy mike

[Lightning Rod]

I don't think that this is gender specific

here is a comment that I posted on pib after similar responses to this piece:

my research has told me that there are many kinds of whores
not limited by gender or front business

our immediate picture when the word 'whore' is uttered is the sad picture we have discussed above. But the streetwalker is only the bottom rung on the ladder of whoredom.

Even among sex workers there is an hierarchy. You have the desperate; you have the purely opportunistic; you have the artists. Then there are the attention junkies who crave admiration and get their sense of value from being paid for it. These are the ones who have pimps. They give all the money to him, so they are not in it for the money, they are in it for acceptance and security.

Then there are the whores who deal in other services besides sex. That probably includes most of us. We sell our bodies and our energies for money, acceptance and security. And when we become old whores, we are just as sad as the streetwalkers. Try getting any job when you are sixty.

[stilltrucking]

I googled the book, it is about the bible duh

Some women from what I have read here on studio eight doreen had no problems with being a sex worker.

But they were not forced into it.

It is a moral judgement I think.

I don't want no truck with it

myself.

but I know men who have fucked there[sic] way around the world in war time, I can't judge them either

sorry for the ramble clay
you would be suprised
them old whores might do better than you think.

[stilltrucking]

sorry I missed your reply clay

yes some of us sell ourselves

some of us sell the truth

I prefer to buy it

the truth

not sex

I am an old hippy

gimmee free love

or it ain't love

shows you how little I know about love

women have so much invested in their children

no wonder I am childless

but I have been working pretty steady since I turned sixty

I suppose I just have low expectations

[K&D]

maybe not like politically but I think there are a lot of writters who are lauded as writting for the common man who are enjoyed for being revolutionary and they are very machismo in a bad way a lot of authors, Kerouac and Bukowski and that guy who wrote tropics of cancer...his girlfriend had a girlfriend kind of interesting.


As for whores..it is saddest when they feel they have to be whores which I suppose has less to do with them and more to do with our culture...I mean i feel really weird about actual prostitution, its a women's body so they should be able to use it how they want...as for hoochy mamas (thats what we call em here in the south) I disapprove in most cases because it seems a role forced on them, but doesn't that make them a victim?

I was with thig young girl in brazil and all i saw around me were girls younger hen she lke 14 being treated with agression etc etc and i felt the machismo might have been forceing my little joyce to be a person who was not monogomous (to be honest i'm not sure she was more of a tease then a hootchy mama) and it took me the longest time that it was totally a power thing, her flirting and being with multiple people and she was really truelly having fun....i suppose people's desires sometimes are different and the way they get what they want are different.

[stilltrucking]

my only experience with a prostitute was when I was 14, it dam near ruined sex for me

I can't find the posts but she put them on the creative board, about her time as a working girl. Wonderful writer, she made it sound cool.

[K&D]

I missed clay's and you truckin reply too.

I knew a male "rent boy" of sorts in Brazil as well. He disapeared for a month and came back with a tan. He had been with an older man in vitoria (beach side) and you know what these "street kids" were in someways way more honest then any one i'd ever met. The also helped eachother. There was def a hierarchy but few of them were actually whores...some of them were very young.

I think I have less problems with male prostitution then with female prostitution.

once in college we had whats called the sex workers show "http://www.sexworkersartshow.com/

me and another female professor were the only one that thought maybe its values should be questioned, heres a group of people laughing it up about there expereince as sex workers, none of which are in the buisness any more, to sell books but they neglected to talk about the reality of porn and prostitution and how this might reflect on actual forced prostitution etc etc....because its not always by choice.

truckin- you use to be cercumsized? I suppose there is something i don't get here? I loved the part about spell check it latter...

I think men, esp. old men can be nururing to like children and stuff...its old fashioned to think of things as a women's touch, its not biological i don't think, its learned...but maybe thats just me.

[stilltrucking]

I think Clay's reply to PIB was spot on

Then there are the whores who deal in other services besides sex. That probably includes most of us. We sell our bodies and our energies for money, acceptance and security. And when we become old whores, we are just as sad as the streetwalkers. Try getting any job when you are sixty.

Moving beyond sex, you know Clay always looking for the universal.


Feeling guilty I never bought a book from you Clay.
I got to sell my time,
I never had the discipline to "scuffle for a living"

[mnaz]

The only thing sadder than an old whore
is a reformed whore, a reborn virgin
too bad, madam had management potential

I think I know what you're saying, but it's kind of funny that if you look at only this part of the poem, odd things may be inferred/hinted at. If we take the position that whoring takes many forms, then it gets interesting in some cases. For example, if selling one's talents/energies for a paycheck, such as in a cubicle doing office stuff, is a form of whoring, then a reformed whore in this case might be someone who said "screw this!", quit, and found a way to get along without resorting to such a "sellout"... thus, a "reformed whore"-- apparently even sadder than an "old whore", who might as well have just stayed on and kept on getting those checks then, eh?

[stilltrucking]

Try getting any job when you are sixty

No problem for anyone I know Clay. Seems like everybody I know over sixty is working.

I been working pretty steady since I turned sixty
seven almost eight years now.

just a passing thought.

I hope something turns up for you too

Something you don't mind doing.