doreen Et. All - about hunter and Zevon

[K&D]

its been bothing me, what was said Dorren. just a little bit.

what's wrong with killing youreslf if you no longer want to live, if your in pain...i don't know i think its personal choice. sure some of the problems he was having might have been solved some how, but i think some of his problems were not solvable, like old age and shit like that...and his other problems, weren't going to be easily fixed for an old man.

hunter s. thompson was not a bad guy, and i think you should read some of his work. my favorite is (its sometimes dense about numbers and polls) Fear and Loathing on the Campaign trail '72. also if your into something short i like his rollingstone commentary and the smaller articles. then theres of course "hells Angels" but i wonder if that would put you off because you might think that he's encouraging them/supporting them or something.

as far as Warren Zevon goes, i truelly do respect and have a certain amountn of love for the guy, and i never met him...but its not because he was a celebrity. he dealt with some major addictions, he was one of those reckless spirits, who was very emotional/angry and he managed to deal with it...i mean thats not something easily done...to deal with something , that in my mind your predesposed to...you know self destruction and all. the one song you were thinking of is Werewolves of London..but he has so many other, really witty songs. anyways you should check him out

fuckin beautiful banner...wow!

[K&D]

the whole thing about fame...lets face it...inorder to be a Hero. there is public involvement nessisary, no one would be a hero if they weren't written about...i'm not an idol worshiper, i just think that those that people can relate to together should be remembered.

[Lightning Rod]

I can't argue with the logic of suicide. We all commit it. Either suddenly or slowly.

It's a statement. I have control of my life. I can choose when to end it.

But it can also be a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

[K&D]

i couldn't agree more.

i think some of hunters problems were temporary and some of them were if not permanent pretty fucking close to pernamenet...fuck dude that word is hard to spell.

and i'm not one of those people who were like, awesome! he killed himself good for him...i'm just saying if thats what he wants to do, i'm not going to say he was wrong, its his fucking life you know. i can't imagine what it is to be a person who so highly valued mobility and control, having to loose it through old age...now perhaps the problems he had about aging were because he was so hard on his body early on, but again, that was his desicion, at least to a certain degree. i'm also not a person that celebrates his alcoholism etc. but he did what he wanted to and he dealt with the consequences in his own way.

you know l-rod, something about the length of your name, or perhaps its just my association but evertime i see it it evokes a sort of connotation of a certain amount of wisdom...just the way it looks, purely astheticly...of fuck! i hope i'm not turning into a postmodernist!

you know about postmodernity L-rod, they say thats where my generation is going...i hope not. what do you think?

[Doreen Peri]

Hi K&D-

Sorry something I said bothered you.

Let me explain. Suicide is the most selfish act a person can commit. Every person has family, friends, people who care about them. Natural death by illness or old age or unexpected tragedies are hard enough on family and friends, but suicide is the hardest. That's why it's so selfish. Other people will suffer because of suicide much more than they would suffer over any other means of death. Imagine finding the body of your family member or friend who had committed suicide. Would that be fair to you? Wouldn't that be painful? What if the person shot themselves? Think of the utterly horrible scene having to clean up the mess. Then, you'd have to live with it for the rest of your life.... live with the thought of it... live with the idea of it... live with the vision of it.

I never said Hunter S. Thompson was a bad guy. I have never read his work. I did see half of the movie about his life (Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas) with Johnny Depp and I was bored to tears (despite the fact that I love Johnny Depp!) I'm just not interested in watching people get fucked up on drugs and alcohol and fall down or walk into walls, making a complete fool of themselves. I find it boring, tedious, and absolutely disgusting. I've seen enough of that in my earlier years when I knew people who got that way. I don't find it entertaining one bit! So, if his books and writings focus on getting fucked up and falling down and making a fool of yourself, it's not the type of "literature" which I would enjoy. Perhaps I'm missing something. As I said, I haven't read him before.

I thought the media made his suicide out to be something of a heroic act or something. It was sickening. Not ALL of the media, just some stories I read. Some said it took a brave man to end his life by suicide if he didn't want to do it any more. Nonsense! That's not bravery! That's plain ordinary selfishness and a copout!

About Warren Zevon.... all I know about him is that he had a rock-n-roll hit out a long time ago which my friend, John, used to play over and over. Werewolfs in London. A good tune, but I got sick of it because John wore out his turntable with it. Other than that, I'm unfamiliar with his life and his music.

Hope this clears up any questions you had about my statements.

[Doreen Peri]

PS-

I must tell you that there are some websites which will not tolerate statements like "he killed himself, good for him!" (I know you didn't say that, K&D, but what you did indicated your approval of suicide.)

or "I can't argue with the logic of suicide" and "I can choose when to end it"

These are statements which can be viewed as promoting suicide.

As a webmaster of this site, I have to take some responsibility for what is being aired on this site and I have to say that though I do not condone censorship, this is irresponsible posting.

Why is it irresponsible?

Because there may be viewers who are considering suicide and if they read people condoning it as an OK act, they may follow through with it.

I do not want that type of responsibility. I do not want to carry with me throughout my life the thought that I created a website where people posted chatter condoning suicide which resulted in influencing a person to commit suicide.

Please, Lightning Rod, K&D, and all other members of this site.... think and post responsibly.

Do not promote suicide on this board.

Thank you.

[Doreen Peri]

PPS - not sure which banner you're referring to because I keep changing them, but thank you for your kind comment!

[K&D]

about Fear and Loathing the movie.

not the best representation of hunter s. thompson. in fact the book has many more instinces where he says two things. 1. aleination prevailed even after the 60's and 2. in my personal interpretation, he says taht drugs are what killed the 60's so to a certain degree, he would agree with you about drugs.

he wrote about how it ended, the 60's and how the optimism didn't survive and i think one of the reasons he states that it ended was just because people beleived drugs were the answer.

fear and loathing the movie, is a certain type of characture of him. some people said, though he did a lot of drugs, it was part of his image and to a certain degree he sort of maintained it/encouraged it. he spent a lot of time writting and working...i think the movie is a pretty poor representation of hunter.

i think inorder to understand him better, you should read some of his work. he was a very troubled dude, no doubt. he tried to deal with his shit, he really did. he tried to find answers, i mean kerouac drank himself to death...still we don't write him off.

which actually connects well to Zevon, who always said that if he had dealt with his issues better, then he would be more widely accepted and considered a "great" writter, but because of a few personal issues, which he got over, he wasn't as well respected. i don't think you can totally write someone off for there faults, thats what makes them human, hell thats one of the things i love about the two. they tried, they fought, i can't imagine the demons both of them had to deal with at various times in there life, hunter dealt with it his whole life.

[Lightning Rod]

K&D,

I think your analysis of HST is dead on. Doreen is just a bit sensitive about ostentatious drug use.

I think a much better representation of Thompson was done by Bill Murray. I can't remember the name of the the movie. It has something to do with buffaloes.

I think your head is screwed on pretty tight about suicide. It's an extreme measure, but sometimes conditions are extreme.

[K&D]

Where the Buffalo roam...yeah closer representation.

but that movie i find is more about his amigo...whats that lawyers name. if you think hunter was potrayed incorrectly in Fear and Loathing, boy was his friend...that movie made his friend look like a complete idiot, when really he was also trying to find the answer.

i respect anyone who trys to find the answer...i don't care how it ended, few examples where it didn't end so good. Kerouac (for sure) Neal Cassady, Hunter S. Thompson,...Jerry Garcia, oh one of my faves, Brent Mydland.

its like, i hate to do this, cause i always do and some people don't by it. but there are archetypes. the archetype i'm talking about is one of a firery sort of seeker, he has issues, he's got a short fuse...theres tons of them out there. hell i can see a little bit of that achetype in myself. the difference is, theres tons of lost souls, they walk around like zombies, these guys did not...they pushed they tried to fight aleination, thats one of the hardest things to do in this society. some of them dealt with it better then others. but damn thats a hard fight to fight, to not become a zombie.

this world fragments people, just like Marx said so long ago. we are an aleinated/fragmented people. no sence of identity, no sence of home or a place to stand...its hard to get a grip on reality, most give up...they give in and they no longer see the truth...these guys, and many others did not. i find that highly respectable, the effort alone, for however long it was, and wether they suceeded in finding there place, its still respectable.

[K&D]

dor, i felt the same way when i didn't read HST...i thought he was some alcoholic who made his fame out of being a foolish drug using jack ass...but then i read his work, i looked into it closer, i saw that the drug use was just stupid hype, there is a lot more to him.

i thought that my little sister liked him because of his drug use, i hated this...then i read my sisters writting (she wants to become a writter) i saw a lot of improvement, i read his work..she learned a few things about him, and he encouraged her to work on her voice. it wasn't about the drug use.

[K&D]

add Abbie Hoffman to that list...how could i forget.

[Lightning Rod]

KiDdo,

I'm forever amazed at your insight. who cares if you can't spel and you capitalization ain't write? It's all about insight.

I think you are dead on about HST.

It wasn't about the drugs, it was about the quest.

[K&D]

was it, kesey, who talked about how sometimes you have to go to edge city? ginsberg talked about people in mental institutions the same way...and zen and the art of motorcycle maintanince, claimed he had to go crazy to figure things out...

i think theres some truth to that, but i also think about it a tad bit different, i think sometimes the quest because its not "normal" sometimes sends you to the edge, hell lets face it some of these guys were forced that way by society, Abbie Hoffman, being forced underground, forced to change his identity...some of them volentarily go there because they didn't know how else to distance themselves from society so they could see what was wrong with it (like Ken Kesey and the guy who wrote Zen and The art of motorcycle maintanince) some are choose/ are forced (depending on how you look at it) there because it helps them deal with the quest and there emotion (like Hunter and Zevon). some go to edge city and fall off. very unfortunate.